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The Atonement of Jesus Christ – Introduction
Reasoning with the Critics ^ | 04/10/2011 | Timothy Berman

Posted on 04/13/2011 10:11:56 AM PDT by K-Ben-K

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To: K-Ben-K

21 posted on 04/13/2011 1:07:03 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
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To: teppe
I’ve instead been taught that worship of the Cross borders idolatry and that we should worship Christ instead of a symbol.

No doubt you HAVE been 'taught'.

However; you have yet to give any indication at all that Christians WORSHIP the cross; other than this accusation here.

22 posted on 04/13/2011 1:08:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla
Apparently KBK or JFS haven't read Paul's words lately.

How about some of JOHN's words??

And some more that he FORGOT to write down...


Let's compare KJV to JST:
 
 
 
 
King James Version
 
John 1
 
 1.  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 2.  The same was in the beginning with God.

 3.  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 4.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 5.  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 6.  There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

 7.  The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

 8.  He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

 9.  That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 10.  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 11.  He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 12.  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13.  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 14.  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 15.  John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 16.  And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

 17.  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 18.  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 19.  And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

 20.  And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

 21.  And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

 22.  Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

 23.  He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

 24.  And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.

 25.  And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
 26.  John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

 27.  He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

 28.  These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

 29.  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 30.  This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 31.  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

 32.  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

 33.  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

 34.  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Joseph Smith Translation
 
John 1

1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.


3 All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made which was made.


4 In him was the gospel, and the gospel was the life, and the life was the light of men;

5 And the light shineth in the world, and the world perceiveth it not.


6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.


7 The same came into the world for a witness, to bear witness of the light, to bear record of the gospel through the Son, unto all, that through him men might believe.


8 He was not that light, but came to bear witness of that light,

9 Which was the true light, which lighteth every man who cometh into the world;

10 Even the Son of God. He who was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God; only to them who believe on his name.


13 He was born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the same word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


15 John bear witness of him, and cried, saying, This is he of whom I spake; He who cometh after me, is preferred before me; for he was before me.

16 For in the beginning was the Word, even the Son, who is made flesh, and sent unto us by the will of the Father, And as many as believe on his name shall receive of his fulness. And of his fullness have all we received, even immortality and eternal life, through his grace.

17 For the law was given through Moses, but life and truth came through Jesus Christ.

18 For the law was after a carnal commandment, to the administration of death; but the gospel was after the power of an endless life, through Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father.

19 And no man hath seen God at any time, except he hath borne record of the Son; for except it is through him no man can be saved.

20 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem, to ask him; Who art thou?

21 And he confessed, and denied not that he was Elias; but confessed, saying; I am not the Christ.

22 And they asked him, saying; How then art thou Elias? And he said, I am not that Elias who was to restore all things. And they asked him, saying, Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

23 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

24 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as saith the prophet Esaias.
25 And they who were sent were of the Pharisees.

26 And they asked him, and said unto him; Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not the Christ, nor Elias who was to restore all things, neither that prophet?

27 John answered them, saying; I baptize with water, but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

28 He it is of whom I bear record. He is that prophet, even Elias, who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose, or whose place I am not able to fill; for he shall baptize, not only with water, but with fire, and with the Holy Ghost.

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and said; Behold the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world!

30 And John bare record of him unto the people, saying, This is he of whom I said; After me cometh a man who is preferred before me; for he was before me, and I knew him, and that he should be made manifest to Israel; therefore am I come baptizing with water.


31 And John bare record, saying; When he was baptized of me, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

32 And I knew him; for he who sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me; Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he who baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

33  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


 34 These things were done in Bethabara, beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

 
 


23 posted on 04/13/2011 1:11:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

x


24 posted on 04/13/2011 1:19:00 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ejonesie22; Godzilla; teppe

I reviewed my original reply to teppe and I actually gave the definition of a coward to describe the actions of certain mormons, although many are most certainly hypocrites.

My apologies teppe, I retract the “hypocrite” definition and correct it to read “cowardly”.


25 posted on 04/13/2011 1:23:24 PM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: SZonian

You are too kind. I would combine the two.


26 posted on 04/13/2011 1:39:46 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

Well, I keep reading on another thread that kindness will conquer evil...


27 posted on 04/13/2011 1:43:02 PM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: teppe

I worship Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. I don’t worship the cross. The cross was where antonement took place, not is a garden.


28 posted on 04/13/2011 3:11:46 PM PDT by Bruinator (God is Great.... Beer is good.... Muzzies are.........?)
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To: SZonian

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

The mormon jesus has been a bad bad boy...

he needs to atone up his goodness muscles...


29 posted on 04/13/2011 4:13:07 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: teppe

I’ve been active LDS for 49 Years and I’ve never been taught that the Christian Cross is murder! I’ve instead been taught that worship of the Cross borders idolatry and that we should worship Christ instead of a symbol.
______________________________________________

OOOOOOOO Ouch kid

You have been taught that the mormon jesus was a “victim”

Kid thats ah MURDER...

No charge for that one...

glad to assist...


30 posted on 04/13/2011 4:17:15 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: teppe

I’ve been active LDS for 49 Years and I’ve never been taught that the Christian Cross is murder! I’ve instead been taught that worship of the Cross borders idolatry and that we should worship Christ instead of a symbol.
______________________________________________

Meanwhile...I’ll cling to the Old Rugged Cross...

Like Paul did...

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—Romans 6:6

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 1 Corinthians 1:17

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

we give the good news of Christ on the cross, a hard thing to the Jews, and a foolish thing to the Gentiles; 1 Corinthians 1:23

For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

Of which not one of the rulers of this world had knowledge: for if they had, they would not have put the Lord of Glory on the cross: 1 Corinthians 2:8

Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Galations 6:12


31 posted on 04/13/2011 4:32:17 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: teppe

I’ve been active LDS for 49 Years and I’ve never been taught that the Christian Cross is murder! I’ve instead been taught that worship of the Cross borders idolatry and that we should worship Christ instead of a symbol.
______________________________________________

Meanwhile you have idolatrous symbols on top of your religious buildings

that statue of a man you call nephi

no wait its moroni...

Just what did Joey Smith end up calling that guy ???

and why is he worshipped on top of your buildings ???

Why is he/it a mere man there instead of the Cross of the LORD Jesus Christ who is God ???


32 posted on 04/13/2011 4:35:52 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: SZonian
Well, I keep reading on another thread that kindness will conquer evil...

Well; according to MORMONism; we ANTI's are EVIL!

Therefore, we can expect kindness just oozing out of every pore, like blood perhaps, coming our way to LOVE us into the MORMON kingdom.

33 posted on 04/13/2011 7:37:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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