Posted on 04/13/2011 10:11:56 AM PDT by K-Ben-K
Therefore, the purpose of this paper is to do exactly that. To present valid, objective, and sound reason to the true position of the Atonement and efficacy of the Cross in the Latter-day Saint believer’s life. Fully answering the false charge that Latter-day Saints find the Cross repugnant and deny the power of the atonement of Christ. As we have seen here, the development of the criticism presented in Hulse’s paper on the Mormon teaching of Christ’s atonement is not a true representation of the actual doctrine itself. Despite what Hulse claims. The reality is that we have seen exactly how the criticism is built upon a strawman argument, and the logical fallacies committed in asserting false presumptions of the claim. In short, Hulse does not represent the heart and soul of the Atonement as understood from a Latter-day Christian perspective, and that his arguments are superficial, lacking any sound objective reasoning to support his failed attempt at exposing the falsehood of Mormonism.
(Excerpt) Read more at reasoningwiththecritics.wordpress.com ...
Ben
Is that you PD?
What a load of pap.
Mormons are conditioned/taught to view the cross as a symbol of murder, not atonement.
“Would you wear a gun around your neck...?”
The temple is the path to “exaltation”, not the cross in mormonISM.
“Beware of FALSE prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are RAVENING wolves ... For such are FALSE apostles,
DECEITFUL workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.”
Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:15, The Apostle Paul, II Corinthians 11:13
I’ve been active LDS for 49 Years and I’ve never been taught that the Christian Cross is murder! I’ve instead been taught that worship of the Cross borders idolatry and that we should worship Christ instead of a symbol.
So, hypocritcally, it is you that are full of “Pap” ... thou hypocrite!
.
“So, hypocritcally, it is you that are full of “Pap” ... thou hypocrite!”
My, my.
How personal things can become when there is an absence of fact, evidence and logical argument...
“Hypocrite”? Not hardly. I don’t fly in and make personal insults and then run off and hide from the accompanying replies, like the mormons on these threads. If I say something, I stay and defend it.
However, I stand by my assertion, while I was a mormon, I was taught that the cross represents a symbol of murder. Why should we honor it? Why should we wear a cross? Not just me, but the hundreds I had chance to interact with during my years of activity. Many today still believe this.
If, as you claim, the cross is idolatry, why the angel moroni on temples? Why the images of JS in the churches and temples? Just to name a few.
Is “some” idolatry ok and “some” not?
Again, the temple is the path of “exaltation” for mormons. Without the “ordinances” found within the temple, no salvation, even for the dead.
Now, if you’d like to engage in civil discussion as opposed to making it personal, I’m all ears.
Ping
The article fails epically by doing the exact things it accuses Rocky and Helen Hulse of in their article. Since the author (Timothy Berman)of this mormon hit-piece fails to link to the Hulse's article I'll do it for you here, look under attonement since the article comes up as a java script popup.
What Berman (a stalker of the Hulses) won't tell you is that the Hulses are both former temple mormons (BIC), and they did the whole thing - so they are not ignorant of the teachings of mormonism, they lived it.
He claims that they misquote former president/prophet/seer of the mormon church without citing the context - hmmmmmmm, so just was this misquote? The entire citation is found here as question 4 "Wearing of the Cross.
The reader will note that Berman skips completely the formal answer cited by Hulse for an extracted portion. Did Hulse take it out of context - no, but the citation and the interpretation matches exactly what Hulse indicated.
Further review of this poor example of mormon apologetics only shows that it in itself is a strawman.
In closing, one statement that JF Smith made stands out -
We may be definitely sure that if our Lord had been killed with a dagger or with a sword, it would have been very strange indeed if religious people of this day would have graced such a weapon by wearing it and adoring it because it was by such a means that our Lord was put to death.
Since KBK states that the Apostle Paul has the authority to speak here is what he says about the cross.
1Cr 1:18 KJV - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Gal 6:14 KJV - But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Apparently KBK or JFS haven't read Paul's words lately.
Looks like the spirit of PD is haunting the place.
Oh, so mormons worship Christ now - thought that was exclusive only of the heavenly father. Now you are worshiping more than one god- polytheism. Thanks teppe for the clarification.
Welcome back PD. Glad you easing back into, but slow down a bit lest you get the whack again.
Don’t be too “you” right off the bat.
"We may be definitely sure that if our Lord had been killed with a dagger or with a sword, it would have been very strange indeed if religious people of this day would have graced such a weapon by wearing it and adoring it because it was by such a means that our Lord was put to death."
Hmmm...who's the hypocrite now? It's just as I said teppe, it's been taught.
Could that fact you guys can't keep your stories straight be any kind of clue that something is up with the LDS?
And don't get me started on "idolatry", how many Joe Smith doing this and that pics you got around the house?
Caught out lounging on the banks of the denial with some green jello.
That's stupid. The cross is a reminder of Christ did for us. And it's not just one but three if you read the story. Jesus was crucified with two other men who were thieves. The truth is that you wouldn't want Jesus' sacrifice come between you and your worship of Joseph Smith.
Ya won’t hear a peep out of him now until he insults and runs again next thread.
More pinhead dancing.
MORMONism is FALSE because two demons, posing as Angels of Light, appeared to JS and lied to him.
Although another theory is that JS just made the whole thing up.
Yet another theory is that JS stole the bulk of the ideas from Spaulding; but don't let me interfer with your dance lessons.
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