Posted on 04/10/2011 3:21:19 PM PDT by Colofornian
PROVO, Utah (ABC 4 News) - The Provo City Fire Department has released the full report on the December Provo Tabernacle fire.
The 135-page report outlines events leading up to the fire from December 17th that destroyed the historic landmark in Provo.
Trax Lighting and AV arrived at the Tabernacle a few days before the fire to setup lighting for a concert that was to be taped by BYU Broadcasting.
During the setup of a lighting truss, a technician said he set aside two lamps that were part of the in-house lighting system.
Fire officials believe these lights were placed too close to a speaker which started the fire two days later.
The report notes a number of circumstances and human errors that contributed to the unintentionally set fire.
Provo fire says the fire alarm in the building was inadequate and failed an inspection on December 2nd, two weeks before the fire.
The fire alarm system was only monitored in the building, meaning an alarm wouldn't automatically trigger a response from the fire department.
There was also not an automatic sprinkler system in the building that fire official believe would have controlled the fire.
The fire alarm system had a history of false alarms that may have have lead building personnel to "become apathetic to the system as a whole."
At 1:10am the morning of the fire, a fire alarm was triggered and a security guard disabled the alarm and did not contact the fire department, delaying a response to the fire by nearly an hour and a half.
Lightweight.
I guess to clarify I would ask why you would make that particular statement on this thread.
We oft see that type statement made by one who sees opposing "Mormonism" as something bad, those doing it and being mean, hateful or whatever. Something which I find most odd when it comes from Christians. They obviously like their neighbor but don't want to support efforts to dissuade them from their fate, perhaps out of fear of offending or who knows, modern American "all paths' Christianity is full of many such paradoxes.
The fringe part was accurate as well...thanks goodness..magritte
If you wish to debate mormonism, bring it on. So far all I have seen is thread disruption on your part, along with accusations.
We are accustomed to this kind of flak, so as I said, I'll leave you to it.
Opposing mormonism isn’t bad or evil by itself. Just as all mormons are not bad or evil, just not saved.
Just like Christians. In the scheme of things Mormons tend to be good people. They won’t steal from you any more than other folks, and are generally less likely too.
Yes and so you have accused me of being dishonest knowing you cannot be called on to prove your accusation.
I don’t wish to debate mormonism, as I’ve previously stated I don’t consider it Christianity. I also think this threads basis is incredibly weak and an improper way to change peoples heart.
**Snort**
Whats the use?
Before you used the word "convert" ... now you switch it to "evangelize." WE tell the Good News; the Holy Spirit convicts and converts.
Anger can be righteous.
Agreed. But in this context, so what?
Cheap personal attacks generally don’t fall into that category.
Agreed. But in this context, so what? Osmosis doesn't automatically link your concepts to any realities that have gone on re: this thread...that's something YOU need to accurately link -- and prove.
Baptism is something man does.
Well, of course baptism is something men do. But if you leave it only as an act of what men do, then please enlighten me:
* How does a mere act of man link to us being forgiven? (Acts 2:38) I thought forgiving sin was something God does. You don't think a mere "ritual" from the human side triggers it, do you?
* How does a mere act of man allow us to be baptized INTO a person like Jesus Christ? (Romans 6:3; Col. 2:12) Isn't being baptized into a Person a supernatural act? (Vs. "natural"?)
* Romans 6:3-4 & Col. 2:12 makes it clear that baptism is like being buried in the grave. Is that what you did when you were baptized? You buried yourself? Or is that what the person who baptized you did? They buried you? Is being buried with Christ a divine spiritual "thing" -- or is a mere human ritual?
I would suggest being thus "buried with Christ" is a pure passive thing that happens to you -- and you can no more contribute to what occurs in being buried in Christ than we will @ our own funeral!
Likewise, see John 3:5-7 -- a passage that shows us undergoing a new birth in which we "cooperate" just as little as we did in our first birth. Passages like 1 Pet. 3:20-21 and Mark 16:16 shows the salvific power within baptism.
Titus 3:5 also hints of that with the "washing of regeneration" mentioned in conjunction with the activity of the Holy Spirit.
Don't even bother, that is lost on the bashers here.....they don't seem to be able to READ!
Pigs snort. Are you a pig? Or just another lightweight posing as a Mormon lightweight?
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Didn’t this fire initally cause a lot of excerize on FR?
IIRC, there was a LOT of JUMPing to conclusions and LEAPING to judgement over just what could have STARTED this fire...
I love ya, Teppe.
O...
K...
But a MUSLIM won’t lie to you and say that they are the ONLY ‘christians’ with authority...
Sorry you lost me at “But a MUSLIM won’t lie to you”
I'd be afraid of them as well.
(Psst... don't mess with their Holy Quran, or you may see a side of them that you just as well wish had NEVER appeared...)
They have their agenda and cannot be turned from it regardless of the damage it does.
When HEADQUARTERS has already done the job...
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
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