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Words of Jesus: Resurrection to Ascension (REAL LDS / Mormon)
LDS.org ^ | D. Lee Tobler

Posted on 03/21/2011 7:01:14 PM PDT by Paragon Defender

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1 posted on 03/21/2011 7:01:22 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender
Two in one day?

Is the bishop paying you over time?

2 posted on 03/21/2011 7:03:57 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Just saying.......)
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To: Paragon Defender

I admire your tenacity.

And then there are others who seem to delight in damaging themselves.


3 posted on 03/21/2011 7:03:57 PM PDT by bigheadfred (Beat me, Bite me...Make Me Write Bad Checks)
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To: Paragon Defender

Mormon atonement - Jesus died just so you can be resurrected. Your salvation depends on how many and how hard your works are - to become sinless. The mormon Jesus didn’t die for you sins - you have to remove sin on your own.


4 posted on 03/21/2011 7:26:24 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

You need to look here. You are being misled as is obvious by your worn out propaganda.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up in the anti-Mormon propaganda can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/


5 posted on 03/21/2011 7:30:34 PM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: Paragon Defender
Mormonism is a wolf in sheep's clothing... SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES (John 5:39)

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves ... For such are FALSE apostles, DECEITFUL workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.” (Matthew 7:15; 2nd Corinthians 11:13).

 
- Warning -
 
This thread has been flagged as Cultic Mormon Spam
by Christians on FreeRepublic.com
 
Let the reader beware!

6 posted on 03/21/2011 7:51:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (.)
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To: Paragon Defender

How do you explain baptism of the dead?


7 posted on 03/21/2011 8:11:58 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Just saying.......)
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To: Paragon Defender
OK, lets look from your sites, from OFFICIAL AUTHORIZED sources eh?

2 NEPHI 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

Grace only counts 'after all we can do' - how do you know you've done enough for salvation? Evidently Christ's resurrection doesn't mean much. Lets try another.

MORONI 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”

My my, for Christ's grace to be sufficient the mormon must remove ALL ungodliness FIRST. Well, tell me pd are you completely godly, completely sinless???? So far I've been correct, lets try another

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 25:15: “Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.”

Hmmmm, we cannot be with God unless we keep the commandments CONTINUALLY. Do you meet this requirement pd??? Lets look at another

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 1:31-32: “For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.”

Well, if you repent, but what is repentance in mormonism?

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 58:43: “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.”

Oh, you must completely stop sinning to really repent. Well what happens when you slip up pd?

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 82:7: “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”

Wow, God dumps you right back to square zero huh. All those temple works, other works of righteousness - up in a puff of smoke, and then some. How often do you keep trying to repent pd? How successful have you been pd? Lets see what else you 'sources' tell me.

ALMA 11:37: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.”

Well, this isn't looking too good. You have to do the work getting sin out of your life, live completely sinless and if you sin, well YOUR scriptures say you cannot be saved in your sin. Really Pd - you have to do all the work first too. What else do your sources say?

“…for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”—1 Nephi 3:7

Hmmmm, only have this life time to become perfectly sinless. Is that the what this says? One of your prophets makes this clear -

“This progress toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through that perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us. In his Sermon on the Mount he made the command to all men: ‘Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.’ (Matt. 5:48) Being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the Lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not for their benefit and which was not attainable. Perfection therefore is an achievable goal.”—The Miracle of Forgiveness, 1969, Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 208-209

Well, there you have it pd - if you are not perfect in this life you fail. Is that correct?

And the burden of the prophetic warning has been that the time to act is now, in this mortal life. One cannot with impunity delay his compliance with God’s commandments.” —The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 7, 10

Yep, in this mortal life pd. Are you perfect yet? Why not pd?

Hmmmmmm, it appears that my statement is completely correct by mormon doctrine standard works and the directed teaching of your prophet. It is clear I'm not the one being misled by worn out propaganda.

8 posted on 03/21/2011 8:15:51 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
l am a Christian and I strongly disagree with you. They might not believe what you believe but they are surely Christians. they act like Christians are supposed to act, they teach Jesus Christ to all the world without getting paid. they are perhaps not traditional Christians as those descended from the Roman Church, but Christians they are! I find your warning very distasteful!
9 posted on 03/21/2011 8:43:05 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: JAKraig

You are aware, of course, that Mormons say that YOU are not a Christian?


10 posted on 03/21/2011 8:47:32 PM PDT by Hootowl
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To: Hootowl

Devil’s in the details...


11 posted on 03/21/2011 9:19:30 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: JAKraig
The fact that you are married to a Mormon of course has no bearing on your disagreement, right?

You can disagree, but it is of little relevance because the facts paint an entirely different story.

That you are willing to compromise your savior for personal reasons is your affair and between the two of you really.

But when you publicly defend Mormonism and try and paint it as what it is not, expect to be called on it.

There are those of us who take defending the faith seriously.

12 posted on 03/21/2011 9:26:33 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: bigheadfred
Tenacity?

Hum, must have been some revisions to Webster's I missed...

13 posted on 03/21/2011 9:27:52 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender; Godzilla
You are doing it again.

Do you really need to keep being reminded when you address those of us who have called you in your game?

14 posted on 03/21/2011 9:29:25 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: JAKraig

lds believe in a created jesus - not Biblical
lds believe god progressed to godhood - not Biblical
lds have taught that Christians are Whores of Babylon
lds believe that yo must work for your salvation - not Biblical
I do not care how nice they are, mormonISM is not Christianity.


15 posted on 03/22/2011 7:02:37 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Godzilla
Mormon atonement - Jesus died just so you can be resurrected

This Mormon doctrine never made the slightest bit of sense anyway, besides being ridiculous.

Can any ex-mo explain how exactly this worked? Jesus was one of millions of spirit children and Heavenly Father hung onto him for thousands of years and then beamed him down to earth so he could die and be resurrected, therefore everybody gets to be resurrected?

The only explanation I ever saw for this is that it was so deep and sacred that it was imponderable.

Right.

16 posted on 03/22/2011 7:59:42 AM PDT by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: Godzilla
And it's not as if the mormon Jesus died for any real reason. I mean, they keep blabbing about "The Atonement", but apparently he did not take on the penalty for all our sins, like the real Jesus did.

In Mormonism, you merely get to be resurrected, then you have to be judged for your sins.

Kind of a raw deal.

17 posted on 03/22/2011 8:02:36 AM PDT by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: svcw

lds believe in a created jesus - not Biblical
lds believe god progressed to godhood - not Biblical
lds have taught that Christians are Whores of Babylon
lds believe that yo must work for your salvation - not Biblical
I do not care how nice they are, mormonISM is not Christianity.

__________________________________________________________

I’m not here to defend Mormonism and their beliefs. I will comment on your bashing of their beliefs however. First I would like to make a point. Some of your complaints to me are the same as arguing what color hair Jesus had. It doesn’t make any difference.

1st
LDS believe in a created Jesus.

On some plane Jesus was created, that is in His earthly body He was created just like the rest of us. However Mormons preach that He is the Alpha and Omega. I don’t care what you dig up by Mormon leaders of the past or even the present, Mormons believe that Jesus was from the beginning.

2nd
LDS believe that God progressed to godhood.

Ok it isn’t biblical, I agree with you, but what difference does it make, they believe He is God. They don’t believe they have another God. They worship the same God you worship, they may wonder about when He became God but I simply don’t see how it hurts anything to think or wonder about that.

3rd
lds have taught that Christians are Whores of Babylon

Baptists have taught the same thing about Catholics, it angers me when I hear it but it doesn’t make me think that Baptists don’t try to follow Christ or that they are non-Christian. While you are correct about this, that is that there have been Mormon leaders that have said this, there are more leaders that have said that this statement is not true. I have attended their “General Conference” and heard it with my own ears.

4th
lds believe that yo must work for your salvation

Mormons believe that you must do all you can do to follow Christ for his grace to have effect on you. This is something that I believe too. Does that make me an infidel? I think it is Biblical. I truly believe that James says it best when he says “show me your works and I will show you your faith”. I might be wrong, but I don’t believe in death bed confessions of Christ for the most part. I don’t think you can live your whole life fighting Christ and then in fear of death confess him and think you will get to live with him an a mansion above. I do believe that those that find him late in life and really repent can indeed have all the benefits of those who have followed Him all their lives but, without a broken heart it won’t work.

I think they are probably pretty close to right on this. I think too many preachers preach the easy way to keep people coming. I don’t believe unrepentant sinners will be with those that do repent. I hope this doesn’t sound selfish but it is what I believe. I hope it doesn’t offend you, I don’t mean it to.

Whatever I believe about the meaning of Grace it has no effect on what it really means. I may be wrong. If I am hopefully The Lord will personally tell me what is right but in the meantime I don’t think he will reject me because of a simple mistake.

I have never been exposed to the meanness you seem to have seen. I have only seen really good people trying their best to serve The Lord Jesus Christ as they really believe. They feel they have felt The Holy Spirit in their lives. How can I refute that? I should accuse them of following the wrong spirit? In Christs own words those that do good don’t follow Satan.

It seems to me you hate the Mormons. Not only their doctrines but them. It is really hard to separate the two. I have learned that it is easy to be judgmental about the beliefs of others. I am an old man and have learned (mostly) to back off when it comes to judging others. Most people even Moslems do what they believe is right.

I don’t have any love for Islam, I hate it. I have a really hard time not hating Moslems. These people do things that hurt other people. They take joy in raping, maiming, and killing other people. There are some things that are just too easy for me to judge so I continue to see the evil in them but I do not see this evil in the Mormons.

I don’t fail to see evil in Mormons because of my wife, although I believe her to be a very true Saint. She tries hard to live her religion, I wish I was as good a person as her. Mind you I try to be a good person, I just don’t think I am willing to put as much effort into it as she.

My father once told me that it doesn’t make any difference what religion you belong to as long as you follow Jesus Christ. I follow Christ with most of my heart. My wife follows Him with all her heart. I have to repent and beg forgiveness too often. I have hope that His grace will be sufficient for me, but I know I will not deserve it. Because of the hope I have I will keep trying to follow Him. My description of Him may not be the same as yours, but, from what I have read from you, you believe in Christ too. Your description (for the most part) simply doesn’t matter. It is the Christ that was born in Bethlehem. It is the Same Christ that was crucified on Calvary. It is the Christ that was laid dead in a tomb yet three days later was seem alive by many people. It is the same Christ that for 40 days after he died on the cross preached to the people that followed him. It is the same Christ that ascended to Heaven right in front of a crowd of people. It is the same Christ that says if I will come to Him with a contrite heart he will make me His and protect me from the consequences of my sins. I personally believe that if you believe this much then I am not sure that anything else you believe about Him matters. From what I have seen, the Mormons believe this much. Perhaps they are wrong in wearing funny underwear, from building and going to temples, not drinking booze, having a priesthood and a lot of other strange things to some of us, but what difference does it makes if they come unto Christ.


18 posted on 03/22/2011 11:41:59 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: JAKraig
"I’m not here to defend Mormonism and their beliefs."

Uhm, yes you did and that's fine, but don't try to say one thing and do another.

But before I go any further, are you willing to debate what you posted or are you just posting and running like before?

19 posted on 03/22/2011 11:46:40 AM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: SZonian
I’m not here to defend Mormonism and their beliefs.”

Uhm, yes you did and that's fine, but don't try to say one thing and do another.

But before I go any further, are you willing to debate what you posted or are you just posting and running like before?

________________________________________________________

I'm sorry if my rant seemed like a defense of Mormonism. I'm not trying to convert anybody to any religion unless bringing people to believe in Christ counts. I am however turned off by people who say things that I think are untrue or who say things that may have some truth in it but is said in such a way as to be misleading or belittling. I simply often try to correct these kinds of statements. Yes I have a hard time not taking critical post about Mormons and Mormonism as being about my wife.

You must know my posts and notice that I comment on a wide variety of subjects other than religion. I in fact am always reluctant to talk about religion since I feel so unprepared as compared to others. I am not a Bible student. I have read it several times but am not a student.

I don't know what you mean by running before. I don't spend my life in front of the computer and I am at work. There are limits to what I can do here but I am willing to have a “discussion” with anybody about most anything.

I find it very distasteful when discussions/debates devolve into arguments. The reason for discussions are for people to learn what others know or believe. I enjoy civil discussions. Sometimes people have to agree to disagree but that doesn't mean we can't at least let others know what it is we do believe.

When I see posts that cherry pick quotations from “Mormon Leaders”, especially when taken out of context I am especially offended and lost about how to comment. The reason is that I am not a Mormon Scholar. I'm sure that if you were to debate a Mormon Scholar you would have a lot more fun. I would be just a dimwit by comparison. Perhaps my wife could answer questions.

I guess if you have questions, I would be glad to try to answer them from my perspective but I'm not sure a debate would be much fun for either of us.

So, did I say something in my last post that you find particularly offensive or obviously indefensible from a Christian perspective? My meaning was to defuse the differences and make sense of them since I find the Mormons to be Christian.

20 posted on 03/22/2011 12:19:38 PM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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