Posted on 03/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by count-your-change
Where was Christ for the three days following his death? It seems a simple enough question and it is. The answer is simple too. One might turn to Matthew 27:59, 60, where it says a rich man, Joseph, took Jesus' body and had it put in Joseph's prepared tomb and then a large stone was rolled in place to close up the cave like tomb.
So why would there be a question? Well, before Jesus died he had been asked to be remembered by a criminal hanging nearby. Said this man:
"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." By the request he shows he does expect, he has faith, that despite the present situation, that Jesus would indeed, 'come into his kingdom'.
But it is Jesus' answer that some find hard to understand or explain:
"He replied, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". Notice that I left out the comma which does not appear in the Greek. It is the placement of that comma that brings the question of whether Jesus was saying either "today you will be with me" or "today I am saying to you", two very different things. Most translators place the comma before "today" in line their beliefs about Christ's condition during those three days, not according to any necessity occasioned by the Greek grammar. Is such placement, and the meaning it imparts, justified according to what the rest of the Scriptures say? No, not at all. How so?
Jesus said he, "the son of man" was to "be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)". (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ 'rose from the dead'.
Earlier Peter had interpreted Psalm 16:10 as fitting the Christ, saying Christ had gone into Hades, or hell as some translations have it, as had David, to await God's resurrection of them. (Acts 2:29-36) David though, would have to wait until that much broader resurrection Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15, the "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous".
But what of the criminal and the promise made to him? Did he die and go to heaven, hell, where?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
Only then, when Christ was "in his kingdom", could this criminal expect to be in "paradise". Mean while he was dead, unconscious, (Eccl. 9:4-6), what Christ compared to sleep.(John 11:11)
Yes, I know. I’ve already addressed that error. I blame my old age and spending way too much time fighting this dang, interminable html code, rather than spending the time re-reading what my failing memory told my fingers to type.
Cheers
“Though his body was in the belly of the fish, Jonah had gone to the depth of Sheol. He was dead.”
Careful there. Jonah was actually quoting a psalm, so if that means the author was dead, then you’re really saying David died and was resurrected, not Jonah.
“Jesus can do whatever he wants. He is not bound to do what the bible says he must do. Any takers?”
Sure. Your proposition doesn’t make much sense if the Bible and Jesus are in harmony. If they are in harmony, the Bible wouldn’t “say he must do” anything that He didn’t already intend to do. The Bible is the Word, Jesus is also the Word, so there’s no conflict.
Thank you
Jesus emerged from the tomb, saw his shadow and ran back inside and there were 6 more weeks of winter!
Luke calls him an “evildoer” at the time of his execution (Luke 23:32) and the man himself admitts his guilt. (Luke 23:41)
Had he been born again and repented, etc., he wqould not have asked what he did, would he? His future resurrection would be sure and certain to him.
If you're referring to Psalm 18:4-6... the Psalmist says "confronted" by death... not dead. Jonah is not confronted by death, he is crying out from the depths of Sheol! If I'm wrong, I hope you can educate me... I don't want to remain wrong.
You’re fairly dense on this subject. The thief was an evildoer... he admitted his guilt... he turned to Jesus in humility... and Christ welcomed him with open arms. Sure sounds a lot like repentance and redemption to me.
Joseph had to claim the body from the Romans. Christ was clearly dead, as were the two thieves with him.
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Certainly the Savior was dead. What does that mean I guess is the question.
What happens to us when we die. Do we sleep? Peter says that while Christ was dead he preached to those that were already dead. I’m sure he didn’t preach to souls that were asleep.
It is interesting that he preached to the souls of the dead. The dead wouldn’t be able to repent and be baptized to join the Church would they? What was the purpose, to torment them? Let them know that they could have been resurrected if only they would have been smart enough to live long enough to see and be a part of Christ’s group.
I know I’m being silly, but these are the kind of questions that can be seriously raised by this question. The Apostles Creed says Christ went to hell, Peter says he preached there and as far as I’m concerned the thief on the cross was there with Him.
Catholics preach purgatory. Many think this is the place that Christ went to. A kind of waiting room before Heaven or Hell. Whatever the place that Christ went to and preached there must be a reason for the preaching. Apparently even those who never knew Christ can be saved by him some how.
While Christ was there he was in spirit just like the other residents of that place. After His resurrection He made it clear that He was no longer a spirit but had flesh and bone. He told those around him that he went to dwell with their Father and His Father. I presume in that place where The Father lives they have physical bodies like Christ had when he left earth to go there.
The more you look at this question about where was Christ for those three days the more questions it raises.
You can find all this in Scripture? Where?
Who was that angel and where do find this in Scripture?
Fantastic painting! I especially like the creatures looking on in the upper left hand. Demons?
“Fantastic painting! I especially like the creatures looking on in the upper left hand. Demons?”
I’m pretty sure I know where they came up with the likeness for the “Creature of the Black Lagoon”. Seriously - looks just like it!
But he DID DO what Bible says he did and that is what we have.
“His soul was in Hades, specifically at one time in Paradise, also known as Abraham’s Bosom.”
Where do find that in the Scriptures?
Luke chapter 24 and Matthew chapter 28 answers that question to satisfaction.
christ went to hell and gathered the peeps that believed in his coming before he came, and remove the keys of death from satan— old testiment= to believe that the messiah will come .. new testiment= to believe the messiah has came and risen from the dead
man was doomed before jesus cause it took a blood sacrafice to remove sin in gods eyes- thats why only a few made it in the old testimement (the flood only noahs family made it, i think 9 peeps)- when jesus (gods son) died, his blood was for all peeps. god accually repented for making man and was going to destoy mankind, thats when gods son jesus stepped in and said he take them- god tells jesus that a blood sacrafice will be needed- so jesus did it- no one goes to father except through me jesus says.. jesus decribes the god head meaning 3 differ peeps- jesus says if you blasphem against god or me it will be forgiven, but if you blasphem against the holy ghost it will not be forgiven. — to prove my point about jesus was around before the old testiment- peeps was asking him why he was changing the law of moses and speaking like he was there cause your only 30 years old, and jesus replied, “BEFORE moses was i was”— and had to escape the crowd before they stoned him
No, it doesn’t say what he was doing, the Bible says he was dead. What do the dead do? “Sleep” said Jesus when he went to awaken, resurrect, his friend Lazarus.
Any form of Greek citing Jesus’s words is a translation from Aramaic, except in those cases where He spoke Hebrew (Eloi, Eloi, Lama sambach thani!).
So to me, all this analysis of where a comma should go in Greek is like counting the angels dancing on a pin head.
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