21 Priests Suspended in Philadelphia

New York Times ^ | March 8, 2011 | Katharine Q. Seelve

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Archdiocese of Philadelphia announced Tuesday that it had suspended 21 priests from active ministry in connection with accusations that involved sexual abuse or otherwise inappropriate behavior with minors.

The mass suspension was the single-most sweeping in the history of the sexual-abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, said Terence McKiernan, president of BishopAccountability.org, which archives documents from the abuse scandal in dioceses across the country.

The archdiocese’s action follows a damning grand jury report issued Feb. 10 that accused the archdiocese of a widespread cover-up of predatory priests, stretching over decades, and said that as many as 37 priests remained active in the ministry despite credible accusations against them.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." -- Hebrews 10:31

Amen. And none can say they weren't warned. The Bible is right in front of them.

[Lorica]

Hebrews 10:

26 For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy “on the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

[metmom]

What about (Eph2:)"9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. " is so hard to understand? It doesn't specify which works and the main point isn't which works it is, but that it's not by them to preclude boasting. That's the main point of the verse which too many people seem to miss.

Salvation is God's doing, not ours. His righteousness is imputed to us. What can we add that would make us more righteous?

He forgives us. If we're forgiven, we're forgiven. There is no sin to condemn us and therefore no need for works to redeem us, which they can't anyway.

Galatians 2:20-21 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Isn't what Jesus did good enough? Isn't his righteousness credited to our account enough? How can our righteousness, which is as filthy rags in God's sight, contribute to our redemption? How can they be added to the righteousness of Christ?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The posts were in bold because sometimes it's easier to format in bold than in italics.

But let's not miss the forest for the trees and instead concentrate on the Scripture itself.

James is not referring to a faith which is not a true faith.

Huh? What does "dead" mean to you?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And here he says “you have been saved,” which is initial justification

So if a person "has been saved," how is justification simply "initial" and not transformative?

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." -- Romans 5:9

"Initial justification."

lol. Rome just makes stuff up.

Justification by Christ is what determines our salvation. Once accomplished, it is not possible to undo. Show us the verses that say men can be unjustified.

[Lorica]

The posts were in bold because sometimes it's easier to format in bold than in italics.

There was no need to type in either, and it's no easier to type a "b" than an "i" in html.

Huh? What does "dead" mean to you?

James is saying a faith without works becomes dead. I believe you're saying it was dead to begin with?

[Lorica]

lol. Rome just makes stuff up.

And this is why your exchanges are so unfruitful.

[Lorica]

Once accomplished, it is not possible to undo. Show us the verses that say men can be unjustified.

See post 142.

[boatbums]

Paul meant works of the Law. Elsewhere, he says just that. And here he says “you have been saved,” which is initial justification, which comes by unmerited grace, which is exactly what the Church teaches. That is not the same as ongoing salvation, which must be “worked out in fear and trembling.”

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The writer of Hebrews is speaking hypothetically and to believers. He finishes the chapter by saying...

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." -- Hebrews 10:38-39

All men need encouragement and fortitude. But only those who persevere to the end show themselves to have been graced with true faith in Christ.

The rest "draw back unto perdition."

And so the writer of Hebrews encourages and comforts...

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works" -- Hebrews 10:23-24

"Good works" being the result of our salvation and not the cause of it.

[Lorica]

"Good works" being the result of our salvation and not the cause of it.

And nowhere did I say good works cause salvation. Nor does the Church say it.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

There was no need to type in either, and it's no easier to type a "b" than an "i" in html.

If typing "b" and "blockquote" you can separate paragraphs with a simple "P."

If you use "I" for every sentence, you have to use "I /I P I" for every new sentence.

Once again, idiotic deflection.

James is saying a faith without works becomes dead.

That's not what the verse says.

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." -- James 2:17,20,26

"Is dead." Present tense.

Faith without works is not true faith because it does not display the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which are the good works of Christ within us.

His works.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And nowhere did I say good works cause salvation. Nor does the Church say it.

But of course your catechism says it. In black and white (hope you don't mind the bold)...

"Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification and for the attainment of eternal life (Catechism of the Catholic church, Part 3, Life in Christ, Merit, 2010)

The term “merit” refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members... (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2006)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

See post 150.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Hebrews 10 does not show us anything about being “unjustified.”

Be specific. Show where Scripture says a man can be “unjustified.” In fact, what do you think “justified” means?

[Lorica]

Once again, idiotic deflection.

It's a fact: I'm not interested in reading a whole post in bold. Whether or not you think it's idiotic to say so says more about you than about me.

Faith without works is not true faith because it does not display the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which are the good works of Christ within us.

So it's still back to the "he wasn't really saved in the first place" argument then.

James says it four ways:

What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?

So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

faith apart from works is dead.

[Lorica]

1 Cor. 6:11 says:

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:26,27 says:

For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Verse 29 says:

How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

Are you saying that those who have been washed and sanctified, known Christ and received the knowledge of the truth were not also justified? Even so, they face a "fearful prospect of judgment" if they spurn the Son of God by persisting in sin.

[presently no screen name]

Same with abstaining from certain foods, ie. no meat on Friday and that sort of thing.

The tuna fish business made a fortune from cathoics. Remember we couldn't eat before HC? The forced fast started at midnight until after we came home from Sunday mass. Control using doctrines of demons.

[presently no screen name]

Thanks. I didn’t read it - thought when I have more time. Amazing how some aren’t moved by evil but stay with it because the church said......

If I read a book telling me all of this, I’d put the book down thinking - no one can be that dumb, that deceived. But I’m witnessing it on these threads. Evil is real, evil is ugly and evil deceives. It couldn’t survive if it didn’t deceive.

[presently no screen name]

Tradition precedes Scripture. Indeed only by Tradition can we know what was the authentic Scripture. You have put the cart before the horse.

Really? Tell us how tradition precedes Scripture, when The Word was from the beginning?

Jesus is The Word.
John 1:1,2,3 "In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God".
"He was with God in the beginning."
"Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made".

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,: says the Lord, "Who is and Who was and Who is to come, The Almighty."