Map of the dig in greece:
Posted on 03/04/2011 12:17:51 PM PST by dangus
The Epistle of St. Jude cites the prophet Enoch:
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his saints 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”Wait, WHAT prophet Enoch?
The Old Testament certainly does mention an Enoch. He was the father of Methusaleh, the longest-living man ever to walk the face of the Earth. Methusaleh drowned in the flood of Noah. Apparently, Enoch didn't. Some suppose Enoch didn't die. The bible says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him." Whatever that means.
Strangely, however, the bible records not a word spoken by Enoch.
But, there IS, in fact, a book of Enoch. It's just not in the bible. At least, it's not in the Catholic, Protestant or most Orthodox bibles. Some suppose that's because it's full of dubious and fanciful passages, and the Church Fathers couldn't tell when the authentic parts of Enoch ended, and when the imaginative apocalyptic imagery began. We still have it, however, because the Ethiopian Church counts it among the books of the bible.
That passage from Jude comes from the first portion of Enoch, which reads:
Great fear and trembling shall seize them, even to the ends of the earth. The lofty mountains shall be troubled, and the exalted hills depressed, melting like a honeycomb in the flame. The earth shall be immerged, and all things which are in it perish; while judgment shall come upon all, even upon all the righteous:But to them shall he give peace: he shall preserve the elect, and towards them exercise clemency. Then shall all belong to God; be happy and blessed; and the splendour of the Godhead shall illuminate them. Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him
--Enoch 1:6-2:1
Enoch is a fascinating book for many other reasons. For instance, it foretold that Jesus' birth would be seventy generations after Enoch (10:15) , in exact agreement with the gospel of Luke (3:23-38)
Sadly, however, it's hard to tell how much of Enoch is genuine. Various leaders of the Dead Sea Scrolls project have claimed to see the book (or microfiche replica of it) in its entirety, but that it's held in private hands and so their claims cannot be verified. Such a claim is astounding, since Enoch gives great detail of the gospels.
Chapter 92 of Enoch is particularly fascinating (Enoch isn't THAT long; some chapters are but a single verse.), describing the history and future of Mankind as in eight weeks. Bad news, folks: The third millennium after the founding of the church isn't a happy one:
And during its [the 6th week's] completion He shall burn the house of dominion with fire, and all the race of the elect root shall be dispersed. Afterwards, in the seventh week, a perverse generation shall arise; abundant shall be its deeds, and all its deeds perverse. During its completion, the righteous shall be selected from the everlasting plant of righteousness; and to them shall be given the sevenfold doctrine of his whole creation.What's interesting is that Chapter 92 correctly pegs the founding of the Church (AD 30) as happening exactly 1000 years after King David's reign (970 BC), and that it describes 3,000 years from the founding of the Church until the coming of the Messiah, when most early Christians expected a quicker 2nd coming or that it would come 1000 years after the founding of the Church.
Finally, the last notable thing about the New Testament's citation of Enoch: So much for sola scriptura. Unless you use the Ethiopian canon.
The assertion of yours that I dont understand is about sola scriptura (more properly prima scriptura, but that is another discussion).
So please explain to me how a book that was rejected for inclusion in the canon because it did not meet the criteria established by the early fathers of the church “shoots” the idea of sola scriptura. I see it as a perfectly sound reason for explaining why sola scriptura is a sound practice.
For many reasons the book was rejected. Not saying that it was a BAD book or that the teachings are wrong. The point is that much of what we know about the book is so limited that to prevent the introduction of something that MIGHT be in error, we stick to that which we know to be truth. A beliver can then “work out their faith” by testing the message of the questionable work against scripture. This is true for an OT work such as Enoch or can also be used for Gnostic texts (which will fail the test of scripture).
Allow me to make a more modern example, Are the writtings of Billy Graham or Ellen White or Pope or Bishop or whatever automaticly cannon? No, they are not. They may be GOOD writings. They may be sound and scholarly works. Does not mean that they need to be added to the canon.
If one were to follow your logic, one could easily speak against sola ecclesia as well.
Side note, I should point out that all of the major traditions of Christianity recognise the same 27 books of the New Testament.
Interesting picture, can you provide a reference or URL for those of us who are curious?
Aw, I was jiss funnin ya.
“The Book of Enoch claims that Giants were spawned from the union of rebel angels and earth women.”
So does the Bible in Genesis Chap 6...
“The number of people increased all over the earth, and daughters were born to them. The sons of God saw that the daughters of other humans were beautiful. So they married any woman they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not struggle with humans forever, because they are flesh and blood. They will live 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, as well as later, when the sons of God slept with the daughters of other humans and had children by them. These children were famous long ago. The LORD saw how evil humans had become on the earth. All day long their deepest thoughts were nothing but evil. The LORD was sorry that he had made humans on the earth, and he was heartbroken. So he said, “I will wipe off the face of the earth these humans that I created. I will wipe out not only humans, but also domestic animals, crawling animals, and birds. I’m sorry that I made them.” But the LORD was pleased with Noah.” (Genesis 6:1-8)
Map of the dig in greece:
Heres a link from youtube that has a lot of pics in videos maybe you can find a link mentioned in one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1RD49XG12Y
So that dig was in Greece near the city of Argos?
So....don't Enoch it until you dried it.
Thanks...that has almost all the pictures I have. So now we have a coverup taking place about this dig. Now I understand why no one had heard of it...and I couldn’t find my link...because I never had a link...
Have not seen that one before. I find this very interesting, I have several sites on stuff like this, I will look back thru my bookmarks and if I find them I will get back to you with the links.
People “rehabilitated” Luther’s “sola fide” so far they came to a position that the Catholic church couldn’t dispute, resulting in a concordant between many Lutheran synods and the Catholic Church. Careful with this notion of “prima scriptura” of yours; the Catholic church holds the notion that scripture must be a test of the authenticity of any intepretation of Tradition or private revelation. I wrote a whole article last week explaining the harmony of tradition and scripture.
What was rejected was Luther’s argument that certain doctrines were not scriptural, and therefore they were inherently wrong. (To come to his conclusion that they weren’t scriptural, by the way, Luther argued against the canonicity of 14 books of the bible, 7 of which came to be accepted into mainstream Protestantism anyway.)
St. Jude cites Enoch as a prophet, a position which is untenable from the canonical books of the bible. It’s quite possible he refers to a sacred tradition, which is merely reflected by the book now known as the book of Enoch.
You do know that these pictures are from a photoshopping contest from a website called worth1000, right?
There’s a mathematical problem in making giants: As length doubles, surface area quadruples and volume multiplies by a factor of eight. Given this, an anatomy which works fine for a six-foot-tall man, doesn’t work for a twelve-foot-tall man; hence a Chihuahua is by necessity a very different dog than a Mastiff.
The only parts of Daniel that were written in Hebrew were those addressed to the descendants of Abraham—Chapters 7, 9, 10, etc.
And what language was the Dead Sea Scrolls version of Enoch written in?
Most Catholics believe that Protestants will only follow what is in scripture and do not allow for any other form of inspiration. That has not been the case with the Protestants that I have met. They allow for other inspiration and the moving of the Holy Spirit but also require that recognition of HOLY inspiration be in alignment with scripture.
Likewise, many Protestants think that Catholics only follow the church and what the church leaders say is tradition (sola ecclesia). And just like before, the phrase does not represent the basis of Catholic thought.
But to say that because Jude cites Enoch as a prophet, and then to make an assumption as to the validity of sola scritura, the same arguments can be made against sola ecclesia because it was the church that ruled on the status of the book.
Lost Books of the Bible:
book of the wars of the Lord, Num. 21:14
book of Jasher, Josh. 10:13 (2 Sam. 1:18).
Samuel … wrote it in a book, 1 Sam. 10:25
book of the acts of Solomon, 1 Kgs. 11:41
book of Samuel the seer, 1 Chr. 29:29
book of Nathan the prophet, 2 Chr. 9:29
book of Shemaiah the prophet, 2 Chr. 12:15
acts of Abijah … in the story of the prophet Iddo, 2 Chr. 13:22
book of Jehu, 2 Chr. 20:34
written among the sayings of the seers, 2 Chr. 33:19
spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene, Matt. 2:23
I wrote unto you in an epistle, 1 Cor. 5:9
as I wrote afore in few words, Eph. 3:3
read the epistle from Laodicea, Col. 4:16
when I gave all diligence to write unto you, Jude 1:3
Enoch also … prophesied of these, Jude 1:14
Maybe, then, you have no disagreement with the Catholic Church on the issue of sola scriptura. The debate with Luther was because he denied the belief in purgation (after-life cleansing of sins before entering Heaven), praying for the dead, the efficicacy of works and the saints praying for us, arguing that they were nowhere in the bible.
Of course, the part no-one remembers is that at the Diet of Worms (not an appetizing name; “Diet” means “Congress” and Worms is a city in Germany), the Catholic cardinal pointed out references in:
1 Peter (”the disobedient shall survive, but as one passing through fire”),
Revelations (the firstfruits watching the events below, and offering the prayers of those below as incense to the Lamb, while they join in the prayers),
James (”faith, if it hath not works is dead”),
2 Maccabees (where the prophet points out the effectiveness of the righteous warriors contributing their loot to the temple for the remission of the sins of their fallen comrades, who had taken charms into battle),
Daniel (where the three saints in the furnace give praise that the LORD thus removes their sins from them),
and more passages from Jude, Sirach, Tobit, and the Wisdom of Solomon.
Luther’s only response was to assert that those books, or the portions of them pointed out by the cardinal, weren’t really scripture, and that the Church tradition of regarding them as scripture was 100% null and meaningless. (The New Testament books cited were later added back into the Lutheran canon, due to the influence of the other reformation traditions.)
Now, even if you don’t agree with the Catholic Church on those theological issues, the point I’m making is that the Catholic Church never responded to Luther by merely asserting Sola Ecclesia. There has never been such a doctrine uttered. Even on the three occasions when the pope has proclaimed something infallible ex cathedra, he has argued that such was the unanimous opinion of bishops. Rather, the Catholic Church responded to Luther by pointing out where in Holy Scripture it had gotten such doctrines.
Uh, yeah. They are. Google the headline, and see what you find. The original pictures were from a photoshop contest; someone else apparently made a news story to go with them.
Here’s the original work. You’ll note it’s dated 2002, long before the discovery.
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/18533/giants
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