Posted on 03/04/2011 12:17:51 PM PST by dangus
The Epistle of St. Jude cites the prophet Enoch:
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “Behold, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his saints 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”Wait, WHAT prophet Enoch?
The Old Testament certainly does mention an Enoch. He was the father of Methusaleh, the longest-living man ever to walk the face of the Earth. Methusaleh drowned in the flood of Noah. Apparently, Enoch didn't. Some suppose Enoch didn't die. The bible says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him." Whatever that means.
Strangely, however, the bible records not a word spoken by Enoch.
But, there IS, in fact, a book of Enoch. It's just not in the bible. At least, it's not in the Catholic, Protestant or most Orthodox bibles. Some suppose that's because it's full of dubious and fanciful passages, and the Church Fathers couldn't tell when the authentic parts of Enoch ended, and when the imaginative apocalyptic imagery began. We still have it, however, because the Ethiopian Church counts it among the books of the bible.
That passage from Jude comes from the first portion of Enoch, which reads:
Great fear and trembling shall seize them, even to the ends of the earth. The lofty mountains shall be troubled, and the exalted hills depressed, melting like a honeycomb in the flame. The earth shall be immerged, and all things which are in it perish; while judgment shall come upon all, even upon all the righteous:But to them shall he give peace: he shall preserve the elect, and towards them exercise clemency. Then shall all belong to God; be happy and blessed; and the splendour of the Godhead shall illuminate them. Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him
--Enoch 1:6-2:1
Enoch is a fascinating book for many other reasons. For instance, it foretold that Jesus' birth would be seventy generations after Enoch (10:15) , in exact agreement with the gospel of Luke (3:23-38)
Sadly, however, it's hard to tell how much of Enoch is genuine. Various leaders of the Dead Sea Scrolls project have claimed to see the book (or microfiche replica of it) in its entirety, but that it's held in private hands and so their claims cannot be verified. Such a claim is astounding, since Enoch gives great detail of the gospels.
Chapter 92 of Enoch is particularly fascinating (Enoch isn't THAT long; some chapters are but a single verse.), describing the history and future of Mankind as in eight weeks. Bad news, folks: The third millennium after the founding of the church isn't a happy one:
And during its [the 6th week's] completion He shall burn the house of dominion with fire, and all the race of the elect root shall be dispersed. Afterwards, in the seventh week, a perverse generation shall arise; abundant shall be its deeds, and all its deeds perverse. During its completion, the righteous shall be selected from the everlasting plant of righteousness; and to them shall be given the sevenfold doctrine of his whole creation.What's interesting is that Chapter 92 correctly pegs the founding of the Church (AD 30) as happening exactly 1000 years after King David's reign (970 BC), and that it describes 3,000 years from the founding of the Church until the coming of the Messiah, when most early Christians expected a quicker 2nd coming or that it would come 1000 years after the founding of the Church.
Finally, the last notable thing about the New Testament's citation of Enoch: So much for sola scriptura. Unless you use the Ethiopian canon.
Nope! The flood happened the year that Methuselah died . . . The literal meaning of his name is "When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent."
I’ve always enjoyed the connection between Genesis 6, and the sons of man in[Giants] Enoch.
Talmudic tradition teaches that Methuselah died the year of the flood, in fact according to earliest commentaries on the Talmud, the seven day period given in Genesis 7:4 was on the day of Methuselah’s death to give Noah and his family a week of mourning for him.
Enoch is an interesting extra-canonical work, though, and was clearly known in the time of the early Church.
A fascinating read.
The Book of Enoch claims that Giants were spawned from the union of rebel angels and earth women.
Isn’t this date setting, which is supposed to be a no no?
Yup. Genesis 6. Not saying I believe in all of Enoch; I noted that we don’t know how much of what Jude was quoting constitutes the current book we have. But it’s written from the perspective of someone who witnessed the events of Genesis 6, when the Sons of God came down from the Heavens, and took women as wives. It doesn’t then specifically state that Giants were the offspring, but does leap straight off into talking about giants.
I’ve had extensive conversations with Zionist Conspirator about the Catholic Church not knowing what to make of the beginning of Genesis.
ZC, I’m not meaning to start up that conversation, but thought its only good manners to point out when I talk about you.
OK, actually I would like your opinion on this: Whereas the Church and Benedict and John Paul expound quite greatly on the story of Adam and Eve, presuming it to be completely truthful, I can’t say I’ve ever heard anything about the Sons of God having their way with human women, breeding a race of giants. What is a creationist, young earth or not, supposed to make of this? I’ve reconciled young-earth creationism and my background in science, but I’ve not wrestled with giant angelic fornicators (fortunately :^D)
Sorry, but Enoch describes THREE thousand years after the founding of the Church, not TWO. And whatever events happen at the close of the 2nd millennium would probably happen at around 2012, not 2030.
Sorry, but Enoch describes THREE thousand years after the founding of the Church, not TWO. And whatever events happen at the close of the 2nd millennium would probably happen at around 2012, not 2030.
I said that backwards. 2030, not 2012.
Explain? What’s date setting? What does date setting mean?
Oh, OK. What did he die of? Since all the descendants of Enoch died in about the same year (except Noah and company), I’ll admit I presumed that wasn’t just a coincidence.
>> The literal meaning of his name is “When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent.” <<
Just wondering: Did Methuselah work for UPS?
Umm, you do realize that:
1) Jews do not count Enoch in the Tanakh
2) It is an aprocrapil work - authorship is uncertain
3) Was not written in Hebrew as were the other books of Tanakh
And for those reasons was not included in the canon by the early fathers.
>> The literal meaning of his name is “When He Is Dead It Shall Be Sent.” <<
Just wondering: Did Methuselah work for USPS?
>> 1) Jews do not count Enoch in the Tanakh <<
Yes, I realize that. And even if I cared — which I don’t, because they rejected several books on the grounds that they pointed to an imminent Messiah — I ALSO NOTED that Enoch is not canonical to Catholics (like me), Protestants, or most Orthodox. So what’s your point?
>> 2) It is an aprocrapil work - authorship is uncertain <<
Well, St. Jude seems to have regarded some portion of it as authentic, although AS I NOTED, we don’t know how much of the work we currently have would have been recognized by St. Jude.
>> 3) Was not written in Hebrew as were the other books of Tanakh <<
What we have was written in Ge’ez. Presumably, that’s a translation, since St. Jude probably wouldn’t be citing anything written in Ge’ez.
>> And for those reasons was not included in the canon by the early fathers. <<
Yup. I could mention several other reasons if I though them relevant. What’s interesting is that St. Jude cites a work which plainly wasn’t canonical. Kinda shoots that whole notion of sola scriptura down in a fiery crash.
I can’t say I’ve ever heard anything about the Sons of God having their way with human women, breeding a race of giants.
You can check out Dr. Michael Heiser video presentation on Genesis 6.
Mention of UFOs in the first twenty seconds of an eighty minute video. No thanks. Wanna give me a little bit of synopsis, preview, some reason to think that Michael Heiser is anything but a stark raving lunatic escaped from the Coast-to-Coast asylum?
(Anytime someone with an unidentifed PhD mentions UFOs...)
Please take your time and watch the video. A FReeper request, he’s not a nut.
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