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To: CynicalBear; smvoice
Where does the teaching of Jesus need to come from?

Let us look at the ministry of Jesus. Where did He have the new Christians take instruction from? His new Church. He never wrote anything down that we know of, with the exception of what He wrote in the dust.

He taught the Apostles, the disciples and the crowds. And what did the Apostles after Pentecost do? They taught as well, but mostly not from Scripture. What did Peter teach from after Pentecost? From his own authority given to him by the Holy Spirit. From this source, comes our current authority to teach.

Let us turn to Paul. Ephesians 2: 19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone. 10

Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets. What further does Paul say? 1 Timothy 3: But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

The pillar and foundation of truth? Sounds like Jesus is delegating His authority to the Church. Do we have more evidence?

Matthew 16:. 18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, 13 and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. 14 Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

The keys are the final clue. Kings in those times gave the keys to the kingdom to their chief steward who looked after the day to day affairs for them. If the king went on a journey, the steward looked after the kingdom for him until he returned.

Thus it is with the Church. They have the God-given authority, as Scripture affirms. The children of the Reformation do not.

287 posted on 02/22/2011 7:44:06 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr

Mark, can I take the time to write my response to you with Scripture provided? I would rather get back to you with a clear understanding of my position, than type off a few words and wait for your response. I do have more respect for you than that.


303 posted on 02/22/2011 8:08:06 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: MarkBsnr; CynicalBear; smvoice; Quix
Peter is not the Rock upon which the church is built.

In Matthew 16 Jesus is talking to all of the Apostles. They were all asked the question of who they thought He was. Though Peter was the one who answered for the group Jesus was talking to them all. When Peter said that they believed He was “Christ the Son of the Living God” Jesus replied and said that it was not flesh and blood that had revealed that to Peter but that it was “my Father which is in heaven”. He then says to Peter “and thou art Peter”, acknowledging that He knew who Peter was just as Peter knew who Jesus was. Then Jesus, referring back to “my Father which is in heaven”, says, “upon this rock I will build my church”.

In other places in scripture Jesus is referred to as the “corner stone”, but the rock that the church is build on is the Father.

If you want reference to God as the Rock here are some verses.

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."

Don’t try to tell us that Peter replaced God Himself as the Rock upon which the church is built.

315 posted on 02/22/2011 8:18:15 PM PST by CynicalBear
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