Posted on 02/22/2011 10:28:33 AM PST by topcat54
Who would have thought that the Berlin Wall would come down, or the Soviet Union would collapse, or atheistic Romania and other Eastern Bloc countries would break free from the Soviet orbit? The question is, What will fill the vacuum? If Christians aren’t ready to lead in this area, then we’re going to have years of unrest. Until Christians engage the culture in a comprehensive way with the “whole purpose God” (Acts 20:27) all we’re going to see in the next few decades is hand wringing. We need a new generation of the “sons of Isaachar,” “men who understood the times with knowledge of what Israel should do” (1 Chron. 12:32).
(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...
The War of Independence was known in England as “The Presbyterian Rebellion.”
It figures they’d blame the Calvinists.
That's true.
You have so far failed to answer my questions regarding "heroes" of the American Revolution and the French Revolution.
You offered the following assertion:
"The Bible always notes that God is not happy with rebellion. Rebellion is in the domain of Satan."
I have asked you to apply it to specific historical situations and people.
This you have not done.
< shrug >
It seems pointless to discuss matters with a person who won't defend or address the significance of his own assertions.
This discussion isn't about me.
It's about "The Bible always notes that God is not happy with rebellion. Rebellion is in the domain of Satan."
That's nice.
How does "The Bible always notes that God is not happy with rebellion. Rebellion is in the domain of Satan." apply to the the "War of Independence", "Presbyterian Rebellion" or whatever the heck you want to call it? Was George Washington a Godly Hero of Freedom or a godless anti-Christ rebel?
I'm not exactly sure what you asking in that Schaeffer's worldview was the same in terms of the civil magistrate as it was on every thing else. A worldview is a collection of presuppositions one uses to filter and interpret reality. They don't change from subject to subject. If you are asking what Schaeffer believed regarding the proper relationship between a Christian and the government, then that's exactly the subject of his book "A Christian Manifesto" - all 138 pages. A bit long to post here. If you want his detailed, very worked-out answer to just that question then read the book.
It is very much about you, and your seeking to avoid the issue impinges on your Eternal Destiny. I have indeed answered your question about George Washington. I then asked you a question. You tried to change the subject. I see no need to continue the conversation.
I have. You took issues with DeMar's critique, so I ask, in your opinion, after reading Schaeffer, how did his worldview inform his view of the civil magistrate? What did his worldview tell him about the particular solutions to the problems facing our society, in particular the civil magistrate's role, as well as other societies?
God says submit to them as in obey their laws, but does not say we should not rebel if they threaten the faith. The example of Judas Maccabeus is a good one.
But is there not a saying that “rebellion against tyrants is obedence to God” from scripture?
Please read post number 28, thank-you and respond please.
| 1 Macc 2:22 [22] We will not hearken to the words of king Antiochus, neither will we sacrifice, and transgress the commandments of our law, to go another way |
| 14If ye will fear the LORD, and serve him, and obey his voice, and not rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall both ye and also the king that reigneth over you continue following the LORD your God: 15But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall the hand of the LORD be against you, as it was against your fathers. |
Now righttackle is correct that we should be cautious about rebelling, but it is clear that the civil authorities also report to the big boss upstairs. And as we see in Maccabees and through the book of Judges, if the civil authorities are against God, then by all means, we must rebel against them. But for other reasons, hmmm.....
And again I state that's a bit broad for a message board. The first response would be, "What aspect of government?" There are dozens, if not hundreds of particulars to this question, each of which require their own analysis. If I had to choose a sound bite summary, which is never wise, it would be "don't render unto Caesar what is rightfully God's."
No, sir, you did NOT answer my question. Your response completely avoided my question, and indeed avoided the whole issue of applying your principle:
"The Bible always notes that God is not happy with rebellion. Rebellion is in the domain of Satan."
to the specific historical case of the American War for Independence. America is born in rebellion, and predicated upon the right to rebellion. "When in the course of human events ..." What do you think your principle "Rebellion is in the domain of Satan" says about America, her founding, and her founders?
I am not going to answer your question until you answer the questions I have raised to you. You in fact are the person who is avoiding discussion. Again, I don’t believe there is any issue pursuing this matter. I detect in you an offensive spirit and attitude toward Christian people, and I refuse to be drawn into your sphere. You will hear no more from me.
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