Is there an after-the-age-of-reason limit for very old LDS church members?

I read a very interesting article in the (Salt Lake) City Weekly, “Sealed Fate: A burning in Ida Smith’s bosom leads her to Christopher Nemelka’s new spiritual order.” It details how Smith, nearly 80 and a descendant of LDS Church co-leader Hyrum Smith, has converted to the claims of Nemelka, who says he translated the sealed portion of The Book of Mormon.

As a result, Smith, a former head of the BYU Women’s Research Institute, has rejected her church, given her home and many possessions to Nemelka, and was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 2008. One incident that may have prompted the excommunication was Smith taping a conversation she had with LDS Apostle Jeffrey Holland, who tried to talk her out of following Nemelka, who proclaims the usual — multiple revelations and claims that the current LDS Church is in apostasy, etc.

Nemelka, who has a criminal record, seems a hustler to me, but he obviously appeals to an elderly woman who never married and seems to have slipped into very eccentric behavior. According to the article, Nemelka has at least 80 followers of his “restored” sealed plates version of the Book of Mormon.

But this is not really about Nemelka or his doctrine. Instead, just as there is an “age of reason” standard for baptism — eight years old — I wonder if there should be an “age of reason” test for elderly members of the LDS Church who do something like Ida Smith did that seems more a case of advanced age than apostasy. Excommunication is probably the hardest thing for a lifelong, cultural Mormon to deal with. It would devastate me if I were ever cast out of my church. And I can imagine the heartbreak of Smith’s close family, who are left only to pray that she changes her mind before she dies.

Frankly, that’s really not possible, I believe, for Smith, who seems to serenely enjoy the new reality she has created for herself. But it would break my heart, as well as my siblings, to have to deal with my elderly parents — both of sound mind and strong members of the LDS faith — suddenly fall prey, if their minds deteriorate, to a smooth talker who tears away a lifetime of spiritual accomplishment in the church.

Recently, Ida Smith gave her burial plot to Nemelka, who will now be buried next to a large obelisk dedicated to Hyrum Smith’s memory. Ida Smith apparently believes that Nemelka is the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith. Does anyone seriously believe that her apostasy from the LDS Church is the result of a rational decision?

I know a very faithful Latter-day Saint senior citizen woman, of sound mind, who believes Satan is the God of the Old Testament. She’s not shy about that belief. Church leaders have dealt with it tactfully. She holds a temple recommend and remains sealed to her elderly husband. It would be a sin, in my opinion, to pursue her eccentric, incorrect belief to the point of excommunication.

Although I don’t know all the facts of the Smith case, and what I’ve written is a suggestion, not a criticism, I wonder if Ida Smith’s late-in-life switch merits debate on when a church member no longer becomes responsible for his or her beliefs. The age of reason starts at 8, but when does it end?

#1

FR poster Jules8 posted THIS article Saturday (last) night: Didn't Do Your Homework re: a more updated Salt Lake City Weekly article that ran Feb. 15. (Be sure to go there and comment as well)

#2

Ya gotta click on the cartoon in the first line of this article! Great cartoon by Cal Grondahl!!! Even though this column wasn't too flattering of ex-communicated Mormon Ida Smith because of her new "prophet" adherency, Doug Gibson wrote a follow-up column to this one Ida Smith has her say on my age-of-reason blog" -- and wrote a note to columnist Doug Gibson, and closed with: "...is there any way I could get the original of Cal Grondahl’s wonderful cartoon, which accompanied Mr. Gibson’s post?? I loved it!”

#3

From the column: I read a very interesting article in the (Salt Lake) City Weekly, “Sealed Fate: A burning in Ida Smith’s bosom leads her to Christopher Nemelka’s new spiritual order.” It details how Smith, nearly 80 and a descendant of LDS Church co-leader Hyrum Smith, has converted to the claims of Nemelka, who says he translated the sealed portion of The Book of Mormon. As a result, Smith, a former head of the BYU Women’s Research Institute, has rejected her church, given her home and many possessions to Nemelka, and was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 2008. One incident that may have prompted the excommunication was Smith taping a conversation she had with LDS Apostle Jeffrey Holland, who tried to talk her out of following Nemelka, who proclaims the usual — multiple revelations and claims that the current LDS Church is in apostasy, etc.

So here we have the LDS church ex-communicating nearly 80-year-old descendents of Joseph Smith's brother out the church!!!

It just can't stand one iota of dissent from any quarters!

From the Salt Lake City Weekly article by Stephen Dark as he wrote about Joseph Smith's brother's descendent reading a book by a "new" Mormon prophet, Nemelka:
A burning in Ida Smith’s bosom leads her to Christopher Nemelka’s new spiritual order:

Ida Smith nevertheless had an intense, life-changing reaction when she read the book. She devoured it over six weeks, in the process emptying two boxes of tissues and several red ballpoint pens as she wept and underlined page after page of scripture. The voice of the Mormon angel Moroni “was unmistakable,” she later wrote. By the time she had finished the book, “my entire worldview had been forever changed.” It revealed to her what she had suspected since her youth: that the LDS Church was fallible and unnecessary, and that its prophets since Joseph Smith had been in name only.

Ah, so that's it! These Lds "prophets" are PINOS! (Prophets In Name Only!) And it took the former head of the BYU Women's Research Institute, a direct descendent of one of the men that ALL Mormons who make the pilgrimage to the Carthage jail, honor...Hyrum Smith!)

So, apparently, this Nemelka fella...has "translated" the "sealed portion" of the Book of Mormon.

And Ida Smith has proclaimed, per this article, that The voice of the Mormon angel Moroni “was unmistakable”!!!

(Sounds to me like ALL Mormons need to apply their own "prayer test" to Nemelka's "revelation of the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon." If they don't, and if they've ever challenged anybody to pray about the Book of Mormon, then they are outright two-faced hypocrites!)

So, I guess, once Mormons pray about Nemelka's revelations, if they get a bosom burning, they, too, need to follow Ida Smith's lead...and leave the church! IF...that is, a burning bosom was ever enough to determine truth. And if it's that fallable...they need to leave the church, anyway...only NOT for Nemelka's latest sham....

So, apparently, this Nemelka fella...has "translated" the "sealed portion" of the Book of Mormon. I understand how he could get a HAT; but how did he lay hands on the U&T???

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4RPpWfvVNs&feature=related

According to the article, Nemelka has at least 80 followers of his “restored” sealed plates version of the Book of Mormon.

These things happen from time to time.

It mattereth not.

Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (a.k.a. The Church of Jesus Christ, and the LDS) is by far the largest Mormon denomination. It is a continuation of the "Rocky Mountain Saint" branch of Mormonism.
The more liberal Community of Christ (formerly called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is second in size. It is a continuation of the "Prairie Saint" movement. Although generally referred to as "Mormons," they do not use the term themselves, because of its association with polygamy and because they believe the name was not part of the original church.
Many additional small Mormon faith groups, including:
- Aaronic Order: unknown membership; 6 centers; 20 ministers
- Apostolic United Brethren: about 7,000 members. They disagree with the LDS' decision to allow ordination of African-Americans and allowing women to assume leadership positions.
- Church of Christ (Fetting/Bronson): about 2000 members
- Church of Christ (Temple Lot): about 2400 members
- The Church of Christ "With The Elijah Message," established anew in 1929 12,500 members worldwide
- Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite): about 2700 members
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: about 11 million members
- The Community of Christ: about 250,000 members. This denomination was formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- the "RLDS Church". It was formed in 1860 by remnants of the original church who did not make the trek to Utah. They reject certain beliefs and practices of the LDS church, including marriage sealing for eternity; they allow both men and women into the priesthood; their services are open to the public. They have about 250,000 members.
- United Order Effort: a polygamy practicing group, excommunicated by the main LDS church, of perhaps 10,000 members
- The Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It split from the Reorganized Church in 1991 because of the latter's liberal theology. It is centered in Independence, Missouri, and had an estimated membership of 2,500 in mid-1996. They publish a periodical "The Restoration Advocate" six times a year

And we CANNOT forget that lovable FUNDAMENTALIST Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

The folks that actually follow MORMON scripture; found in D&C 132.

Per this 2001 Salt Lake City Weekly article:
See True Believer: A fabled portion of...Book of Mormon made a one-time believer of Christine Marie...... we see:

Nemelka Tale, Excerpt by Excerpt	Joseph Smith Look-Alike, Right? How Nemelka has Joseph Smith down pat!
[1] "The truth was, he told me he had been called to translate the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. He almost failed the first time because of his pride, so God took his calling away for a while,” Marie said.	Why didn't Joseph Smith say, "Satan would try to tempt me (in consequence of the indigent circumstances of my father’s family), to get the plates for the purpose of getting rich. This he forbade me, saying that I must have no other object in view in getting the plates but to glorify God, and must not be influenced by any other motive than that of building his kingdom; otherwise I could not get them."
[2] The sealed portion as written by Nemelka exists. Nemelka admitted he wrote it, not translated it. People besides Marie have read its pages. Dewey recalls Marie talking about it. “I thought it was kind of an elaborate joke—I don’t know what. She said it was very realistic-sounding, despite the strange premise. I told her there was no way it could be authentic.”	Hmm...We wonder how those closest to this Mormon "prophet" must have “...thought...it was kind of an elaborate joke...was very realistic-sounding, despite the strange premise....was no way it could be authentic.” Why that's just like the Book of Mormon!
[3] In the realm of Mormon folklore, few things rank as highly suspect as the Three Nephites or the sealed portion. The Three Nephites, according to lore, live immortally as the last of a righteous tribe that once existed on the American continent. As such, they have roamed the world through the centuries, turning good deeds wherever they went. Like the Jewish lore of Elijah at the Passover table, they could exist literally, or figuratively. The sealed portion is another matter. It’s reputedly a blocked-off section of the original gold plates from which Joseph Smith was translating the Book of Mormon. Mormons teach that he could not access it and he was not authorized to translate it. In the Book of Jared in the Book of Mormon, the sealed portion is briefly cited as containing the entire history of the world, from Adam until Christ’s Second Coming.	Hey, if Smith couldn't translate the "sealed-off" portion, then what? Do Mormons think that "translators" and "seers" have gone by the wayside forever? (Every accusation the Mormons have made vs. Christians about supposedly "shutting off" the need for "living prophets" apply to THEM here! Their own arguments have come back to bite them! What? Have Mormons shut out the need for "translating" sealed portions of "revelations"? Say it ain't so, Joe! Say it ain't so!)
[4] “It’s a historical footnote. We know that a portion of the plates Joseph Smith had was sealed. We don’t know anything about what was in them, and they play no role in our theology,” said Daniel Peterson, associate executive director of the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, a parent organization of the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS) at Brigham Young University. Peterson found Nemelka’s sealed portion mildly impressive, but far short of any potential to spark a following. Since the sealed portion exists as a sort of blank spot on Mormon theology, it’s fertile ground for anyone who wants to invent something, much like Jesus’ childhood, on which the Bible never took pains to elaborate. “I don’t think I’m going to convert anytime soon,” Peterson said. “He writes reasonably well. I’m tipping my hat, I suppose, but it’s a good imitation of scriptural style.”	Even Lds apologist Daniel Peterson a decade ago said Nemelka "writes reasonably well. I’m tipping my hat, I suppose, but it’s a good imitation of scriptural style.” [Sounds just like Joseph Smith!]
[5] Nemelka’s version finds its context in a preamble he penned before embarking on his sealed portion. It begins in the summer of 1984, when he worked as a security officer for the LDS church. Already disillusioned with the church, he ventured into the Temple’s upper room where the Twelve Apostles meet. Confronted with its opulence, he “wept bitterly.” Shortly afterward, a “tremendously bright light began to fill the room.” Not only did Nemelka see the personage of his late grandfather, but Joseph Smith and the gold plates to boot. His mission, he learned, was to “commence” the translation of the sealed portion, but only under the position and authority of Smith. The preamble ends with a rumble of stalwart righteousness: “Though I will endure many persecutions and trials, I will never deny that I have experienced that which I have described above, and if any man mock me or that to which I have testified, I will witness against him at the judgement bar of God … I solemnly testify.” It’s signed Christopher M. Nemelka, Adam Ben Eli. The alias, Nemelka explained, kept matters in the original Mormon spirit of authenticity. If Joseph Smith used pseudonums, so would he.	Nemelka, just like Smith, apparently had other-worldly bright-vision visitors as a "'tremendously bright light began to fill the room.' Not only did Nemelka see the personage of his late grandfather, but Joseph Smith and the gold plates to boot. His mission, he learned, was to 'commence' the translation of the sealed portion, but only under the position and authority of Smith." [Well, what do you know? The Mormon god isn't limited by the scorched-earth Mormons from resending bright visitors to give bright visions with not-so-bright content!]
[6] It’s a stately, but leaden piece of writing designed to hit all the right notes with Mormon faithful, right down to its repeated use of “And it came to pass … ” and the liberal use of words like “behold,” “eternal” and “exceedingly.” It’s also a deft mix of Old Testament wrath (“you shall weep and wail and gnash”) matched with New Testament promise and redemption. It’s loaded with admonitions to obey God’s commandments—or else. “My true intent was to somehow perpetuate a religion that would be based on true Christian principals of Christ-like love,” Nemelka explained in a phone interview from jail. “Where I made my greatest mistake, for which I’m now extremely sorry for, is that I used deception to perpetuate what I proposed as the truth, assuming at the time that Joseph Smith had done the same thing.”	Well, let's see, Joseph Smith did jail time over his escapades. As Joseph's wife later said, "It was secret things which...cost Joseph and Hyrum their lives..." (Source: Solemn Covenant, by B. Carmon Hardy, Univ. of Illinois) So, of course, Nemelka would pen a "stately, but leaden piece of writing designed to hit all the right notes with Mormon faithful, right down to its repeated use of 'And it came to pass … ' and the liberal use of words like 'behold,' 'eternal' and 'exceedingly.' It’s also a deft mix of Old Testament wrath ('you shall weep and wail and gnash') matched with New Testament promise and redemption. It’s loaded with admonitions to obey God’s commandments—or else. 'My true intent was to somehow perpetuate a religion that would be based on true Christian principals of Christ-like love,' Nemelka explained in a phone interview from jail. Ah, I'm sure at times even Joseph Smith had similar noble intent...as if he could "outdo" Jesus Christ, which, btw, he said he could...boasting he was the "only man" who knew how to keep a church together...something, he claimed, Christ didn't do.
[7] After finishing his version of the sealed portion, Nemelka floated it around certain circles in the Mormon fundamentalist community. It was a big hit, winning him the admiration of many. Along the way, two women offered to live with him and Jackie under a polygamous relationship. One of them was Vicky Prunty, current director of Tapestry Against Polygamy. Prunty, who married Nemelka in a private ceremony, broke ties with him in 1996. “A lot of fundamentalists believed him. They were extremely angry with him when he leveled with them. I thought he was through with that sealed portion game. It’s really hard to put a finger on him. A lot of people would have to come together to put the pieces of his own personal puzzle together."	Joseph Smith was a polygamist who loved "private" (as in "very" private ceremonies); so, hey, why not a reincarnated "prophet" like Nemelka?
[8] There seems to be ample evidence that Nemelka is a good salesman. In an April 2, 1993 letter to one of his wives, which Nemelka admitted to having penned, he wrote: “When I deal with people, I am amazed at the ignorance and stupidity of most. People are so easily manipulated and deceived. Knowing this has made me a near master of manipulation. I try only to use this art, however, to help people. Sometimes the things I do seem terrible at the time, but usually the manipulation works to accomplish that which I intended.” Nemelka’s revelations from jail, styled after Joseph Smith’s revelations from his own jail time, seem to work in similar territory. In a March 16, 2001 revelation to Marie, Nemelka spoke of overhearing one of the Three Nephites, describes his judge as someone who “was wrought upon by forces that her spirit was too weak to control” and described Marie as a mysterious nameless “sister.”	Nemelka was "amazed at the ignorance and stupidity of most...people are so easily manipulated and deceived. Knowing this has made me a near master of manipulation. I try only to use this art, however, to help people. Sometimes the things I do seem terrible at the time, but usually the manipulation works to accomplish that which I intended." Why, no wonder Hyrum Smith descendent Ida Smith immediately recognized Nemelka as a "prophet" reincarnated! How many times did Joseph Smith mutter similar thoughts to himself?

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