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The Intercession of the Saints [Church Fathers on the Saints in Heaven Who Intercede on Our Behalf]
Church Fathers ^ | 80AD-419AD

Posted on 02/08/2011 10:58:06 AM PST by marshmallow

Hermas

“[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).

Clement of Alexandria

“In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]” (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208]).

Origen

“But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep” (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233]).

Cyprian of Carthage

“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

Anonymous

“Atticus, sleep in peace, secure in your safety, and pray anxiously for our sins” (funerary inscription near St. Sabina’s in Rome [A.D. 300]).

“Pray for your parents, Matronata Matrona. She lived one year, fifty-two days” (ibid.).

“Mother of God, [listen to] my petitions; do not disregard us in adversity, but rescue us from danger” (Rylands Papyrus 3 [A.D. 350]).

Methodius

“Hail to you for ever, Virgin Mother of God, our unceasing joy, for to you do I turn again. You are the beginning of our feast; you are its middle and end; the pearl of great price that belongs to the kingdom; the fat of every victim, the living altar of the Bread of Life [Jesus]. Hail, you treasure of the love of God. Hail, you fount of the Son’s love for man. . . . You gleamed, sweet gift-bestowing Mother, with the light of the sun; you gleamed with the insupportable fires of a most fervent charity, bringing forth in the end that which was conceived of you . . . making manifest the mystery hidden and unspeakable, the invisible Son of the Father—the Prince of Peace, who in a marvelous manner showed himself as less than all littleness” (Oration on Simeon and Anna 14 [A.D. 305]).

“Therefore, we pray [ask] you, the most excellent among women, who glories in the confidence of your maternal honors, that you would unceasingly keep us in remembrance. O holy Mother of God, remember us, I say, who make our boast in you, and who in august hymns celebrate the memory, which will ever live, and never fade away” (ibid.).

“And you also, O honored and venerable Simeon, you earliest host of our holy religion, and teacher of the resurrection of the faithful, do be our patron and advocate with that Savior God, whom you were deemed worthy to receive into your arms. We, together with you, sing our praises to Christ, who has the power of life and death, saying, ‘You are the true Light, proceeding from the true Light; the true God, begotten of the true God’” (ibid.).

Cyril of Jerusalem

“Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . ” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

Hilary of Poitiers

“To those who wish to stand [in God’s grace], neither the guardianship of saints nor the defenses of angels are wanting” (Commentary on the Psalms 124:5:6 [A.D. 365]).

Ephraim the Syrian

“You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him” (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]).

“Remember me, you heirs of God, you brethren of Christ; supplicate the Savior earnestly for me, that I may be freed through Christ from him that fights against me day by day” (The Fear at the End of Life [A.D. 370]).

The Liturgy of St. Basil

“By the command of your only-begotten Son we communicate with the memory of your saints . . . by whose prayers and supplications have mercy upon us all, and deliver us for the sake of your holy name” (Liturgy of St. Basil [A.D. 373]).

Pectorius

“Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ]” (Epitaph of Pectorius [A.D. 375]).

Gregory of Nazianz

“May you [Cyprian] look down from above propitiously upon us, and guide our word and life; and shepherd this sacred flock . . . gladden the Holy Trinity, before which you stand” (Orations 17[24] [A.D. 380]).

“Yes, I am well assured that [my father’s] intercession is of more avail now than was his instruction in former days, since he is closer to God, now that he has shaken off his bodily fetters, and freed his mind from the clay that obscured it, and holds conversation naked with the nakedness of the prime and purest mind . . . ” (ibid., 18:4).

Gregory of Nyssa

“[Ephraim], you who are standing at the divine altar [in heaven] . . . bear us all in remembrance, petitioning for us the remission of sins, and the fruition of an everlasting kingdom” (Sermon on Ephraim the Syrian [A.D. 380]).

John Chrysostom

“He that wears the purple [i.e., a royal man] . . . stands begging of the saints to be his patrons with God, and he that wears a diadem begs the tentmaker [Paul] and the fisherman [Peter] as patrons, even though they be dead” (Homilies on Second Corinthians 26 [A.D. 392]).

“When you perceive that God is chastening you, fly not to his enemies . . . but to his friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to him, and who have great power [in God]” (Orations 8:6 [A.D. 396]).

Ambrose of Milan

“May Peter, who wept so efficaciously for himself, weep for us and turn towards us Christ’s benign countenance” (The Six Days Work 5:25:90 [A.D. 393]).

Jerome

“You say in your book that while we live we are able to pray for each other, but afterwards when we have died, the prayer of no person for another can be heard. . . . But if the apostles and martyrs while still in the body can pray for others, at a time when they ought still be solicitous about themselves, how much more will they do so after their crowns, victories, and triumphs?” (Against Vigilantius 6 [A.D. 406]).

Augustine

“A Christian people celebrates together in religious solemnity the memorials of the martyrs, both to encourage their being imitated and so that it can share in their merits and be aided by their prayers” (Against Faustus the Manichean [A.D. 400]).

“There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for the dead who are remembered. For it is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended” (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

“At the Lord’s table we do not commemorate martyrs in the same way that we do others who rest in peace so as to pray for them, but rather that they may pray for us that we may follow in their footsteps” (Homilies on John 84 [A.D. 416]).

“Neither are the souls of the pious dead separated from the Church which even now is the kingdom of Christ. Otherwise there would be no remembrance of them at the altar of God in the communication of the Body of Christ” (The City of God 20:9:2 [A.D. 419]).


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Theology
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The Communion of Saints is a key point of Catholic doctrine which we profess when we recite the Apostles' Creed. This means that all members of the Church form one body; there is a unity among all believers, that is, those on earth and those in heaven. The Church Fathers witness to this unity and emphasize that those who shared our sufferings here on earth, can now make petition for us before the throne of God.
1 posted on 02/08/2011 10:58:08 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; MilicaBee; Martin Tell; Salvation; Lemondropkid31; BenKenobi; rbmillerjr

Church Fathers ping!


2 posted on 02/08/2011 10:59:06 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/saints.html#tradition-I


3 posted on 02/08/2011 11:19:38 AM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: marshmallow

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/06/biblical-indications-and-non.html


4 posted on 02/08/2011 11:27:32 AM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: marshmallow

You’d have to show me from the Bible. It always comes down to that, the question of authority, every single time, no matter what doctrine is being discussed.

The views of the church fathers can be interesting and even helpful, but they aren’t God.


5 posted on 02/08/2011 11:41:17 AM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: marshmallow

““[The Shepherd said:] ‘But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask him. But you, [Hermas,] having been strengthened by the holy angel [you saw], and having obtained from him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from him?’” (The Shepherd 3:5:4 [A.D. 80]).”

No demonstration of praying to departed saints in this 80AD passage - unless I’m misreading your quote.

Everything else you posted is later - much later.

IF GOD’S INTENT FOR THE CHURCH WAS TO PRAY TO ANYONE OTHER THAN HIM...

1. Why isn’t it commanded in Scripture?
2. Why isn’t it encouraged in Scripture?
3. Why isn’t there an example in the New Testament, that was specifically written to the Church?
4. Why don’t we have examples of the early Church praying to departed saints in the first century?
5. Why are the references in the Church Fathers much later - hundreds of years?

Further...

1. Why don’t the Scriptures give us any certainty departed saints can hear our prayers?
2. Why don’t departed saints pray to us all the time?

None of that is revealed. Not in the New Testament. Not in oral tradition or practice during the early century of the Church - unless there is something I’ve not seen yet. Do you have any 1st century historical citations that clearly demonstrate the Christians praying to departed saints?

best,
ampu


6 posted on 02/08/2011 11:55:48 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Persevero
I've often said the same thing (because of my protestant upbringing). But now I am teetering on converting to Catholicism. Every time I really dig in and research some issue that is creating controversy, the proof leads me to the Catholic viewpoint. In the case of the Protestant “show me the Bible”, I have to wonder.....wasn't it the Catholic leaders who chose and assembled the books to form the Bible? And did not the books that were not chosen still have some value in their stories and teaching?
7 posted on 02/08/2011 12:02:01 PM PST by SC_Native (Ex resident of SC, GA, VA, NC. Current resident of FL.)
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To: marshmallow
1 Timothy 2

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Why?.....Because

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

8 posted on 02/08/2011 12:03:14 PM PST by Clay+Iron_Times (The Phillistine pResident needs a permanent vacation)
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To: SC_Native

“I have to wonder.....wasn’t it the Catholic leaders who chose and assembled the books to form the Bible?”

No, not exclusively.

The OT canon was set by the Scribes and Pharisees etc., to my understanding, but of course that was verified by Christ. A major reason we have the books of the OT that we have is because Jesus quoted from all of them as authoritative. With the exception of Song of Solomon. He did not quote from the Apogrypha. (sp?)

As for the New Testament canon, that was established by the early church, most importantly the apostles, who were given a tremendous authority by Christ.

You may say those early church apostles and leaders were the RC church, but they did not characterize themselves as RC. Or Protestant. They were just the church. There was no Vatican, no Holy See, etc. RCs teach that Peter was Pope, but, the Bible does not say he was, or that anyone else was.


9 posted on 02/08/2011 12:07:02 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: SC_Native

“I have to wonder.....wasn’t it the Catholic leaders who chose and assembled the books to form the Bible?”

The answer is that the early Church, which was the combined Church, was responsible. In 1054, the Eastern Church split from the Western Church. There were at least three significant issues, including Rome’s claim of Authority over all other Churches. You can read a summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

While I often hear Roman Catholics lay claim to recognizing the Canon of Scripture, there was not a “Roman Catholic” Church at that point. There was a Church God used. Any Church that descended from that early Church can rightfully make the same claim. All of them take credit for how God worked through the early believers in His Church.

It is one thing to be used to create the Canon of Scripture. It is another to follow what is says. THAT is what all believers are supposed to do.

blessings,
ampu


10 posted on 02/08/2011 12:12:03 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: marshmallow

Could you show us were Jesus ever taught this?


11 posted on 02/08/2011 1:28:48 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Persevero

You wrote:

“The OT canon was set by the Scribes and Pharisees etc., to my understanding, but of course that was verified by Christ.”

Show us proof from scripture alone for either one of those claims. Where did Christ ever “verify” the OT canon? Where in scripture do you EVER see the Pharisees and Scribes detailing the canon?

“A major reason we have the books of the OT that we have is because Jesus quoted from all of them as authoritative.”

False. Show me where Christ ever quoted Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, or the Song of Solomon. Now, maybe I missed one or two citations, but He did not quote from most or all of those books I just listed.

“With the exception of Song of Solomon. He did not quote from the Apogrypha. (sp?)”

(sigh) You mean “the Apocrypha” and what you mean, but apparently don’t even know it are the Deutercanonicals.

“As for the New Testament canon, that was established by the early church, most importantly the apostles, who were given a tremendous authority by Christ.”

Name the Apostle who detailed the canon? Name him. Show me the verse that startling fact appears in. Can you?

“You may say those early church apostles and leaders were the RC church, but they did not characterize themselves as RC. Or Protestant.”

They called the Church the Catholic Church - St. Ignatius of Antioch make sthat abundantly clear. He died in 107.

“They were just the church.”

Right - the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

“There was no Vatican, no Holy See, etc.”

The Vatican is just a complex. There were no Bibles then either. That doesn’t mean scripture lacked authority just because no one produced single volume, bound Bibles. Also, the Holy See existed where Peter was.

“RCs teach that Peter was Pope, but, the Bible does not say he was, or that anyone else was.”

Actually the Bible makes it pretty clear Peter was the leader of the Apostles.


12 posted on 02/08/2011 4:22:44 PM PST by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: vladimir998

“Where did Christ ever “verify” the OT canon?”

“Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther” were always included in the “history collection” of Jewish books and “Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon” were always included in the “poetry collection”. By quoting one book from the collection, it verifies the entire collection. None of the apocryphal books were ever quoted in the New Testament. The whole collection is ignored.

I said, the scribes and Pharisees, to my understanding, preserved the Scriptures. I did not say the Bible said so. This is historical information, and is not infallible. That’s why I said it’s “to my understanding.”


13 posted on 02/08/2011 10:12:15 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: vladimir998

“Name the Apostle who detailed the canon? Name him. Show me the verse that startling fact appears in. Can you?”

The apostles are shown being directly commissioned by Jesus to teach, preach, baptized, etc. They then commenced to do so, and claimed that authority in the New Testament as they wrote the gospels and epistles.


14 posted on 02/08/2011 10:14:23 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: vladimir998

“They called the Church the Catholic Church - St. Ignatius of Antioch make sthat abundantly clear. He died in 107.”

That’s history, not scripture, but I’ll accept it.

Catholic means comprehensive, in its entirety. Ignatius called it the catholic church, not the Roman Catholic Church. There is a big difference. The catholic church refers to the one church Jesus died for; every believer at every time in history who has put their trust in Christ. This, a true Protestant confesses and believes.

Most Protestant churches confess the Apostle’s creed, stating the we believe in

“I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.”

We aren’t talking about the Roman Catholic church here!


15 posted on 02/08/2011 10:19:26 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: vladimir998

“The Vatican is just a complex. There were no Bibles then either. That doesn’t mean scripture lacked authority just because no one produced single volume, bound Bibles.”

Indeed, the Vatican is just a complex.

There were Bibles. They were not bound by Thomas Nelson publishers; they consisted of the scrolls of the Old Testament books and the epistles being circulated through the churches.


16 posted on 02/08/2011 10:21:41 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: vladimir998

“Actually the Bible makes it pretty clear Peter was the leader of the Apostles.”

I disagree. Peter was extremely important. But John is also very prominently featured. Interestingly, Peter was largely featured for his impetuous outbursts and for his triple denial of Christ, which he of course was later forgiven for.

As an aside, I am particularly appreciative of the record of Peter’s denial. Many were forced to recant their trust in Christ under torture, particularly during the midieval era. It is the example we see of Christ forgiving Peter while not dismissing the denials that taught the church to restore such as were too weak to bear up under torture and denied Jesus in their anguish.

Peter, John and James were a threesome that were more frequently recorded as being pulled aside for extra counsel or experiences, for example, the Mount of Transfiguration.

The apostle given the most influence, at least Biblically, was Paul.


17 posted on 02/08/2011 10:26:07 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: vladimir998

Actually, as I think about it, the Bible records Paul correcting Peter on a matter of doctrine, I believe it was forcing new Christians to get circumcised? not totally certain, anyway, Peter submits to Paul’s correction.

I am not nominated Paul for the office of first Pope, just pointing out Paul’s apparent authority.


18 posted on 02/08/2011 10:28:02 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Persevero

You wrote:

“I said, the scribes and Pharisees, to my understanding, preserved the Scriptures. I did not say the Bible said so. This is historical information, and is not infallible. That’s why I said it’s “to my understanding.””

In other words you have no answer and use sola scriptura only when it suits you. Gee, that’s consistent.


19 posted on 02/09/2011 5:06:53 AM PST by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: Persevero

Again you’re not answering my actual question:

“Name the Apostle who detailed the canon? Name him. Show me the verse that startling fact appears in. Can you?”


20 posted on 02/09/2011 5:08:14 AM PST by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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