"As Catholics live among those who are of false religions, and often have the most intimate connections with them, they naturally and laudable contract a love and affection for them. This makes them at first unwillingly to think that their friends are out of the way of salvation, then they proceed to wish and hope that they may be saved, then they call into question that that is so. In this, they grab at every pretext to persuade themselves that their friends can be saved in their own religion. It has become the fashion to think and believe that an uncovenanted mercy is to be found in God for Jews, Mohamedans, and those of false religions. Fashion is a powerful persuasive against which even good people are not always immune. When a Catholic hears these liberal sentiments every day resounding in his ears, and anything that seems contrary to them, ridiculed and condemned. He eventually yields to the delusion. The real reason that Catholics adopt this loose way of thinking, is that they are ignorant of the grounds of their religion, they don't examine the matter thoroughly, and once they are infected by the spirit of the day, they become unwilling to examine any further. They even get angry if any zealous friend should attempt to undeceive them. Grasping at the false reasoning that favors this loose way of thinking, they refuse to open their mind to the truth".
- Orestes Brownson (1803-1876), Brownson's Quarterly Review ( American born, former New England Transcendentalist and colleague of Channing, Emerson, and Hawthorne. Published Brownson's Quarterly Review from his conversion to Catholicism in 1844, until within three years of his death.)
"Why God would allow these "ambiguities" to occur in Vatican II. (and other magisterial documents)?
Considering all that I have said thus far, especially concerning the ulterior motives of the liberal prelates and their virtual hijacking of Vatican II, I think Scripture has an answer as to why God would allow these "ambiguities" to occur. In short, there is an interesting working principle in Scripture. As a punishment for your sin, God will allow you to pursue, and be condemned by, what you sinfully desire. This is what I believe happened at Vatican II. The progressivist bishops and theologians sought for a way to push their heterodox ideas into the Church, so God allowed them to do so, as a witness and judgment against them. He would allow the Council to have its "ambiguities" so that those who would interpret them contrary to nineteen centuries of established Catholic dogma, would lead themselves into sin, and ultimately into God's judgment. Unfortunately, as is always the case, the sheep suffer for what the shepherds do wrong, and as a result, we have all been wandering in the spiritual desert of liberal theology for the past 40 years. (Article from Catholic Family News, Feb 2003, by Robert Sungenis)(1)
(1) In fact, the bad shepherds may be a chastisement for the sins of the sheep. Saint John Eudes, basing his words on Sacred Scripture, says that when God wants to punish his people, he sends them bad priests. See The Priest, His Dignity and Obligations, by Saint John Eudes, Chapter 2, "Qualities of a Holy Priest". (New York: P.J. Kenedy and Sons, 1947).
Vatican II is a punishment from God. It is a snare, a siren song to RUN AWAY FROM! Do not seek any answers about the Faith from Vatican II or any theologian that refers to it.
Vatican II is a punishment from God. It is a snare, a siren song to RUN AWAY FROM!
That would include Pope Bendict XVI.
No thanks,........"Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia"...... works just fine for me.
Disavow vatican II? Where does the pope stand on vatican II?
Verdugo:
Cardinal Dulles was made a Cardinal by Pope John Paul II? Do you have a problem with this? as he is the only American Theologian, who was not a Bishop, given such a title.
In a previous thread, this discussion came up and it seems you do not want to answer my questions.
Outside of the Church is a teaching of the Church that goes back to the Fathers of the Church and is taught by the Church. However, has outside of the Church ever been formally defined? as it is clear that Vatican II reformulated “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” to state in essence “All salvation if from and thru Christ through his body the Church” so that the normative instrument of salvation that Christ uses is “The Church”. The question who is part of the Church is not as defined as you say it is for even the Fathers saw in the NT not only Trinitarian Baptism, but also Baptism of Desire and Baptism in Blood.