“It is Catholicism against varying degrees of disbelief.”
Ah, but you ignore the Bible believers, going back to the Apostolic church (Bereans) and the Waldensians.
‘Ah, but you ignore the Bible believers, going back to the Apostolic church (Bereans) and the Waldensians.’
From Wiki:
‘Founded in Edinburgh in 1773, the Berean Church’
‘According to secular academia and the Waldensians themselves, the Waldensians started with Peter Waldo, who began to preach on the streets of Lyon in 1177.[7]’
I don’t think that 1773 or even 1177 were during the age of the apostles.
Persevero, respectfully, we who are Catholics ARE Bible believers, AND were Bible compilers. (http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap030700.htm)
The Canon of the Bible
All Christians realize that if God has revealed Himself by communicating His will to man, man must be able to know with assurance where that revelation lies. Hence the need for a list (i.e. canon) of books of the Bible. In other words, man needs to know without error (i.e. infallibly) what the books of the Bible are. There must be an authority which will make that decision.
The canon of the Bible refers to the definitive list of the books which are considered to be divine revelation and included therein. A canon distinguishes what is revealed and divine from what is not revealed and human. “Canon” (Greek kanon) means a reed; a straight rod or bar; a measuring stick; something serving to determine, rule, or measure. Because God did not explicitly reveal what books are the inspired books of the Bible, title by title, to anyone, we must look to His guidance in discovering the canon of the Bible.
Jesus has told us that he has not revealed all truths to us.
Jn 16:12-13
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth.
Jesus then told us how he was planning to assist us in knowing other truths.
Jn 14:16-17
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.
Jn 15:26
When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me.
The New Testament writers sensed how they handled truth-bearing under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.
1 Cor 15:3-4
For I handed on (paredoka) to you as of first importance what I also received ...
2 Tim 2:2
And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust (parathou) to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.
There was a constant history of faithful people from Paul’s time through the Apostolic and Post Apostolic Church.
Melito, bishop of Sardis, an ancient city of Asia Minor (see Rev 3), c. 170 AD produced the first known Christian attempt at an Old Testament canon. His list maintains the Septuagint order of books but contains only the Old Testament protocanonicals minus the Book of Esther.
The Council of Laodicea, c. 360, produced a list of books similar to today’s canon. This was one of the Church’s earliest decisions on a canon.
Pope Damasus, 366-384, in his Decree, listed the books of today’s canon.
The Council of Rome, 382, was the forum which prompted Pope Damasus’ Decree.
Bishop Exuperius of Toulouse wrote to Pope Innocent I in 405 requesting a list of canonical books. Pope Innocent listed the present canon.
The Council of Hippo, a local north Africa council of bishops created the list of the Old and New Testament books in 393 which is the same as the Roman Catholic list today.
The Council of Carthage, a local north Africa council of bishops created the same list of canonical books in 397. This is the council which many Protestant and Evangelical Christians take as the authority for the New Testament canon of books. The Old Testament canon from the same council is identical to Roman Catholic canon today. Another Council of Carthage in 419 offered the same list of canonical books.
Since the Roman Catholic Church does not define truths unless errors abound on the matter, Roman Catholic Christians look to the Council of Florence, an ecumenical council in 1441 for the first definitive list of canonical books.
The final infallible definition of canonical books for Roman Catholic Christians came from the Council of Trent in 1556 in the face of the errors of the Reformers who rejected seven Old Testament books from the canon of scripture to that time.
There was no canon of scripture in the early Church; there was no Bible. The Bible is the book of the Church; she is not the Church of the Bible. It was the Church—her leadership, faithful people—guided by the authority of the Spirit of Truth which discovered the books inspired by God in their writing. The Church did not create the canon; she discerned the canon. Fixed canons of the Old and New Testaments, hence the Bible, were not known much before the end of the 2nd and early 3rd century.
Catholic Christians together with Protestant and Evangelical Christians hold the same canon of the New Testament, 27 books, all having been originally written in the Greek language.
Catholic Christians accept the longer Old Testament canon, 46 books, from the Greek Septuagint (LXX) translation of the Alexandrian Canon.
Protestant and Evangelical Christians, from the Reformers onward, accept the shorter Old Testament canon, 39 books, from the Hebrew Palestinian Canon. Jews have the same canon as Protestants.
Canonical books are those books which have been acknowledged as belonging to the list of books the Church considers to be inspired and to contain a rule of faith and morals. Some criteria used to determine canonicity were
o special relation to God, i.e., inspiration;
o apostolic origin;
o used in Church services, i.e., used by the community of believers guided by the Holy Spirit.
Other terms for canonical books should be distinguished: the protocanonical books, deuterocanonical books, and the apocryphal books.
The protocanonical (from the Greek proto meaning first) books are those books of the Bible that were admitted into the canon of the Bible with little or no debate (e.g., the Pentateuch of the Old Testament and the Gospels)
The deuterocanonical (from the Greek deutero meaning second) books are those books of the Bible that were under discussion for a while until doubts about their canonicity were resolved (e.g. Sirach and Baruch of the Old Testament, and the Johannine epistles of the New Testament).
The apocryphal (from the Greek apokryphos meaning hidden) books have multiple meanings:
o complimentary meaning - that the sacred books were too exalted for the general public;
o pejorative meaning - that the orthodoxy of the books were questioned;
o heretical meaning - that the books were forbidden to be read; and lastly
o neutral meaning - simply noncanonical books, the meaning the word has today.
Another word, pseudepigrapha (from the Greek meaning false writing) is used for works clearly considered to be false.
>> Ah, but you ignore the Bible believers, going back to the Apostolic church (Bereans) and the Waldensians. <<
Waldensians, themselves, assert that Peter Waldo was their founder. The Bereans were founded by John Barclay in 1773. There certainly were non-Catholic Christians throughout every age since the time of Christ, but such groups typically agreed with modern Protestants on a single issue or two, and frequently had many beliefs far more alien to Protestants than the one or two issues that they disagreed with the Catholic Church on. For example, the Albigensians believed all procreation was evil, tying people to this world. (The word, “bugger” comes from “Bulgar,” as in “Bulgaria,” given the widespread belief associated with a sect similar to that in Albi, truly endorsed by the Albi’s coreligionists or not, that non-procreative sex was permissable.)
Why would any rational person be interested in sects arising 1200 or more years after the real deal was given to us; the Catholic Church, whose hierarchy was chosen and commissioned by Jesus Christ?
The Catholic Church gave us the sacred collection of books, the “Biblia”, defining the Sacred Canon. Sola Scriptural is not Biblical, therefore those who adhere to it are not true Bible Believers, like Catholics are.
Catholicism reigns supreme because it is the work of the Holy Spirit, Who ensures that it is one, spotless, and without blemish. To be Catholic means to respond whole heartedly to the graces available from a valid Baptism, which most Protestants share with us. The glory of the Church does not come from human achievement, but from cooperation with God’s Grace.
It seems we have so many braying donkeys in Christianity who do not wish to accept the sweet yoke of the Gospel, often as the result of some scandal which happened generations before they were born. It is really sad.