Posted on 02/03/2011 11:38:35 PM PST by RJR_fan
Molotov Mitchell hits another one out of the ballpark!
Click HERE.
1) You are not allowed to answer a question with a question.
Who made that rule?
Mark 11:27-31.
Oops. My bad. Jesus routinely answered a question with a question when he was interrogated by a hostile audience.
You're not allowed to follow our LORD's example.
Post 135 by Cvenger includes : "The Father and the Son don’t beat up the Bride before they come and fetch her for the wedding feast."
YOU said they wouldn't beat the bride up before the wedding. The tribulation consists of nothing that hasn't already happened to the Church. You know that if your statement from your foregoing point about beating up the bride prior to the wedding feast makes any sense at all than you have to explain why they've been beating the bride for two thousand years.
Don't feign ignorance of your own argument. Tell me why the beating of the bride for the past two thousand years is any different than what you said about beating the bride prior to the wedding feast and link you provide only restates that same lame point without answering my question. Now, has Christ stopped beating his Bride? Has the Father stopped beating the Bride of Christ?
That we sincerely love our brothers and sisters in Christ, wish them well, and are livid with rage at stupid ideologies that rob them of so much that God wants for them, so much God expects from them.
Do you want to see a literal falling away (aka "The Great Apostasy")?
Wait for the terrible day when the nation of Israel is destroyed by the Muslims - may be next year, may be a generation from now; Dispensationalism will finally be completely discredited and then the Gospel can go forth without the carnival acts.
I believe the above statement isn't quite true. Our topic is the Great Tribulation.
Mat 24:21 (21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Just admit that the little funny line has no place in a legitimate discussion. It's a throw away laugh line for the crowd that already is “in the know” and believes in the Rapture, that's all. It makes no sense at all because whether or not the tribulation is worse in detail or worse because it happens constantly rather than over time, it's still a fact that the Bride has been beaten by Satan and mankind for two thousand years. If he is sparing his Bride the tribulation, then he is at the very least an accessory before, during, and after the fact, to the beatings that have been going on ever since he was beaten.
Did he beat himself and hang himself on that cross or did fallen mankind and Satan? Whatever you answer is the same for his Bride. If he hung himself as opposed to permitting it, then fine, he's beating the Bride now and will stop beating her at the Rapture so she can put on lipstick and makeup for the wedding.
And one other little thing, the verse in Matthew that you quote has nothing whatsoever to say about anyone being removed or spared the tribulation. In fact, if the Lord will be beaming you up you don’t need to be warned to flee.
And you do know that verse comes in response to Christ directly addressing the destruction of Jerusalem, don't you?
And you do know that there are several non-Christian and non-Jewish histories of the destruction that mention the sky darkening, the Roman troops seeing visions of armies marching in the sky, and of trumpets blowing in the heavens as various Jewish factions (each of which claimed to be led by the Messiah - as in many claiming to be the Messiah) fought each other when not fighting the Romans, don't you?
When God defeated the Beast from The Land (apostate Israel), the heavens rejoiced and the Gospel was unleashed in all its power upon the world. Personally, I'm praying, and looking, for the conversion of the Muslims. When God begins to pour out His divine blessings upon Christian Arabia, Syria, Kurdistan, Turkey, etc. -- at some point the Israelis will realize that there's no point in continuing their 2,000-year resentful pout / sulk. The "Sampson option" could be God's means for discrediting Islam.
(Of course, there's always the possibility that God will smite America's smugly secular culture first. Our incredibly rude ingratitude in the aftermath of the fall of the Soviet Union was an offense to His reputation.)
What I know, I know God provides for all who study His Word through faith in Christ, while in fellowship with Him.
What I know ...I know God provides for all who study His Word through faith in Christ, while in fellowship with Him.
That’s just you trying like hell to hide and you know it.
What you know is that almost by rote and because it is comfortable and popular among your friends or something you’ve just always accepted you’re believeing something that is directly the opposite of His Word and that in the best case is keeping you from living in Christ as you should and in the worst case is keeping you from salvation.
have a nice day
Who says it's a rule? ;^)
The author may have hit it out of the ballpark, but until it’s through faith in Him, it’s still a foul ball.
I will look into the volumes you mention. I do have Dennis Johnson’s “The Triumph of the Lamb” commentary but I haven’t started it.
I also have commentaries from the BECNT (Osborne/premill on ch. 20), NIVAC (Keener/premillennial), Boxall (Black’s/amillennial), Aune (WBC/amillennial), Michaels (IVPNTC), Wall (NIBC), Thomas’s Commentary (strongly premillennial/dispensational), Alan Johnson (original & revised EBC volumes/premillennial), Leon Morris (TNTC/amillennial), Beale (NIGTC/amillennial).
You would think I could make up my mind.;)
The only author I’ve referred to is the author of His Word, Christ. The mention of what historically happened at the fall of Jerusalem, well, take it or leave it it.
If you want a tribulation, have one. If you want a Rapture, have one. You are, after all, your own theological final authority and if you pick verses and put them in whatever context you want rather than in the context His Word has them in, so be it. But please, stop accusing Christ and the Father of beating the Bride of Christ. I take offense at the implication that Christ tortures us and abuses us but will stop one of these days to fit in with your version of things.
Go your own way, bub. have a nice day.
Sounds like a rule, doesn't it?
Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope by Keith A. Mathison
Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation by Kenneth L. Gentry
An Eschatology of Victory by J. Marcellus Kik
Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church by Gary DeMar
The Last Days According to Jesus by R. C. Sproul
Rapture - The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind by David B. Currie
It's oriented to the layman but does cover the ground well. I also liked the Gary DeMar title really well.
I think topcat and Rash have given outstanding testimony as to the veracity of anything other than dispensational perspectives on eschatology to those who are honestly seeking simple answers.
The unbiased reader seeking Christ will well understand where to properly search, not by anything stated here, but by simply witnessing the behavior to the testimony.
me: So...if we spend all our time, talents & treasures thinking of creative ways to mock, ridicule & scoff at other believers’ non-essential theology, what does that say about us?
you: That we sincerely love our brothers and sisters in Christ, wish them well, and are livid with rage at stupid ideologies that rob them of so much that God wants for them, so much God expects from them.
If you really mean that you might consider not posting videos or articles that mock or misrepresent what your brothers & sisters in Christ believe. Why not try a little honey instead of vinegar? Why not try a little friendly admonition like what I’ll offer to you:
Ps. 1:1: “Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.”
Be blessed brother! Get out of that seat!!
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