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To: American Constitutionalist
In time they are easy to identify and ignore. It is only tough early on to figure out who they are because they pretend to be agreeable.

I think the topic is interesting in that if Total Depravity is true then there is no desire for God unless God calls. Which means God does not call everyone.

First of all, total depravity does not mean that men cannot make choices. It says that their choices will only be consistent with the nature of fallen man which, we have seen from God's word, is fallen, a slave of sin, full of evil, is incapable of understanding spiritual things, and does not seek for God.

8 posted on 01/28/2011 7:18:11 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights
" First of all, total depravity does not mean that men cannot make choices. It says that their choices will only be consistent with the nature of fallen man which, we have seen from God's word, is fallen, a slave of sin, full of evil, is incapable of understanding spiritual things, and does not seek for God. "

Jesus said that a man can not serve 2 masters, either they would love the one and hate the other.
Man has never been totally free since the fall, mankind is serving someone or something.
Having said that, the ONLY time man had total " Free Choice " was before the fall in the garden of Eden.
Man's character, spirit, being was totally pure and in right standing with GOD.
God told them they had a free choice, that they can eat of any tree in the garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, i.e. THE LAW , how else would we know what is good or evil unless we had GOD's law ?
There was also another tree in the mist of the garden called the tree of life ( Jesus Christ ), but, they rejected Free Grace and choose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the law, so the knowledge of sin, and sin's consequences came into this world and was cursed.

9 posted on 01/29/2011 5:57:43 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: wmfights
Genesis 2

16. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

See there ? God gave man free choice before the fall.
He told Adam " of every tree of the garden you may eat ( * FREELY * )

But ? of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not ( heard that before ? shall not ? ) eat of it, in other words, no free choice, it's forbidden.

The LAW , the 10 Commandments kills, brings death, condemns, uncovers sins, condemnation , but, the spirit gives life, Jesus Christ gives life, Free Grace gives life ) ...

2 Corinthians 3 verse 4-11

4. Such confidence we have through Christ before God.
5. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
6. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant

7. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8. will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9. If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10. For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!


THEREFORE !!!!
THERE IS NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS !!

Romans 8

1. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.



For those who mind the things after the law, human efforts, human merit mind in their natural state of the things of the flesh.

They are carnally minded, human minded and blinded.
They walk after and in the strength of their human efforts and flesh.
They are at war, enmity against GOD, for they are not subject to the law of Free Grace that is in the New Covenant, nor can they know free grace while abiding in the law blinded.
They can not please GOD in their human efforts, human works, human merits because GOD rejects it and declares it as stinking smelling rags.. i.e. their self prideful self made righteousness.
So they ? that are in the flesh, who walk after the flesh, who are not walking in faith, in free grace, can not please GOD,:

For without faith it is impossible to please GOD.


Jesus Christ IS the bread of life, there is no other one in whom we can get life here on earth, and ever lasting life.
Jesus Christ is the tree of life.

10 posted on 01/29/2011 6:31:40 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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