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To: Dutchboy88
"Does God know what you are going to do before you even know that you will be making a choice?"

Well, yes. This does not make us mindless automatons, is the point I've attempted to put across to you. Foreknowledge does not equate with control.

30 posted on 01/21/2011 4:04:36 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; ...
"Well, yes. This does not make us mindless automatons, is the point I've attempted to put across to you. Foreknowledge does not equate with control."

To clarify...absolute foreknowledge and predestination do not equal making us "mindless automatons" or puppets. Puppets & automatons do not have minds. We can see, think, act, behave, choose, all being managed by God Himself. We get to ride along watching and behaving and thinking about this maginificent control. Even folks like Pharaoh are managed into their evil. Recall, God said He would harden Pharaoh SO THAT he would deny Moses the opportunity to leave...not becuase he denied Moses. God caused him to decide this way.

The Scripture tells us that this kind of amazing management is occurring all the time (if you need more examples, let me know) It is a part of the genius of God. There is no analogical counterpart. I cannot say, "It is like such and such..." There is simply no other situation in existence to liken it to. Paul writes that God hardens whom He will and (notice, not "allows to choose Him", but) has mercy on whom He wills. So then, it does not depend upon the man who runs (acts) or the man who wills (chooses), but upon God. And, He manages each detail into existence, precisely at the time and in the way He needs it to behave, think, act, perform such that He really is God of His universe.

You may wish to argue (along with those Paul expected to argue with him in Rom. 9), that this is simply not fair. That may be...in your thinking. But, it does not, according to Paul change the situation as it exists in reality. God is both Just and the Potter (and what a beautiful Potter He is). We are the mud. He molds, shapes, moves every dent, bulge, crack in the pot. We are almost, but not quite, like the inanimate crockery. The image of pottery is simply to emphasize the distance between us and our God. The true distance is even greater.

So, the thought of Him taking an interest in us, to reach down, to rescue us using the blood of His precious Son, a member of the Triune Godhead, should be both astonishing and humbling. But, sometimes we rasise up and demand a say in the whole matter. He, fortunately, does not grant that silliness, although He manages the silliness into us.

So, with all due respect, your remark about "Foreknowledge does not equate with control." is mistaken. While the concepts of foreknowledge, foreordination, predestination are not identical, they are, as I mentioned, intimately associated. They are deeply reliant upon each other as characteristics described by the Scriptures of a God Who is both Transcendent and Sovereign. And, prophecy is simply an expression of the interaction of foreordination being predestined and then spoken of by foreknowledge.

96 posted on 01/22/2011 9:11:13 AM PST by Dutchboy88
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