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To: Cronos; caww
[Christianity literally turned some OT stories upside down] The Church does not teach that the lamb was killed during Passover to atone for any iniquities

What does the Church teach if not that Christ died for our iniquities and yet that he was the Passover Lamb? 

"For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed." [1 Cor. 5:7, NIV]  

The first indication is by John the Baptist (John 1:29) who calls Jesus the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

That's a novel idea for Judaism, given that no sin offering could atone for the sins not yet committed.

The more important imagery is the lamb whose death and whose blood provided the seal of a covenant

The Torah is given as the ever-lasting covenant. That which is ever-lasting cannot be replaced or fulfilled. Also the New Covenant mentioned in Jeremiah is for the House of Judah and the House of Israel (in other words, for the Jews only), but it's still the Old Covenant except that it is written on the hearts so that no one needs to be taught to keep it.

Just as the Israelites ate the lamb as a seal of the old covenant, we too must eat the lamb of God (Jesus's body in the Eucharist) as the seal of the new covenant

Again, here we see almost identical beliefs in other religions, to wit: the Egyptians ate their man-god Osiris in a form of a wafer; he was also believed to have died and resurrected, and was announced by three wise men,  the "messenger" star, etc. 

The "upside down" of the OT practice is that the Passover lamb is not a Temple sacrifice, but is prepared in a household (like a Thanksgiving turkey), and not by a priest (i.e. it is not sacramental), and that Judaism does not condone human sacrifice! (cf  Leviticus18:21, 24-25; Deuteronomy 18:10; Jeremiah 7:31, 19: 5; Ezekiel 23:37, 39). 

Besides, Passover lamb was not a sin sacrifice; in other words, the lamb did not die because of Israel's sins (especially future ones!). Nowhere in the OT is any sacrifice seen as one that atones for sins in the future.

Also the Passover lamb's bones cannot be broken and the NT makes a comparison to Jesus' bones not being broken as a result, saying thereby scriptures are fulfilled [cf John 19:36; Ex 12:46].

But John's obvious cherry-picking leaves out, conveniently, that the same Exodus 12 says that the lamb must not be blemished, whereas Jesus is described in the Gospels as having been horribly "blemished" by Roman torture. How come some things in the scriptures apply and others don't?

Likewise, the same OT makes it clear that sin sacrifice had to be administered by a Jewish priest, not pagan soldiers. The blood of the sacrificed animal would be sprinkled on the altar and on the curtain by a Temple priest.

2,375 posted on 01/31/2011 8:25:33 PM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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To: kosta50

The more I read of your responses the more evident it becomes why you cannot see the truth...even when it’s clearly explained. Rather you do oppose it at every turn, and use scripture to oppose scripture. Seems to me another did just that as well. You know just enough of the truth to distort and make the claims which you do. That of course you are free to do, but it’s become very difficult to take your comments seriously. The obvious is all too just that.

May you eventually recognize the truth and take hold of it for yourself....and when you do you will see as you ought to see...clearly and distinctly.


2,378 posted on 01/31/2011 8:36:54 PM PST by caww
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To: kosta50; caww
1. "Christ died for our iniquities and yet that he was the Passover Lamb" But it doesn't say that the Passover lamb was sacrificed as a sacrifice for iniquities, rather that this was a seal of the covenant, which is what Christ was. The other aspect, namely dying for our iniquities is a separate point. 1 Cor 5:7 does not make the analogy, Passover lamb = sacrifice for iniquities, just compares the sacrifice of the Christ to the Passover lamb sacrificed as a seal

2. True. It was a novel idea, unless one postulates that John the B meant Original Stain

3. Good point about the ever-lasting covenant. I need to read up about that

The rest of your points require more careful reading by me.
2,444 posted on 02/01/2011 2:35:48 AM PST by Cronos
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