Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
So what do you fear?
How do you know? Who's privy to the information on where they ended up?
Did someone tell you? Who?
That's interesting. Not believing in a doctrine that wasn't articulated for centuries is enough to damn them? Do you have Scriptural support for that?
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): "[It is error to believe that] Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section III, Indifferentism, Latitudinarianism, #15.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors):
[It is error to believe that] Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship." Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): "[It is error to believe that] In the case of conflicting laws enacted by the two powers (Church and civil), the civil law prevails." Section VI, Errors About Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, # 42. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): "[It is error to believe that] The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church." Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus Issued in 1864, Section VI, Errors About Civil Society, Considered Both in Itself and in its Relation to the Church, #55. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Pope Pius X VEHEMENTER NOS: That the State must be separated from the Church is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error....
Hence the Roman Pontiffs have never ceased, as circumstances required, to refute and condemn the doctrine of the separation of Church and State...
When the law, by the suppression of the Budget of Public Worship, exonerates the State from the obligation of providing for the expenses of worship, it violates an engagement contracted in a diplomatic convention, and at the same time commits a great injustice.
Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10law.htm
Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302: Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered _for_ the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest. Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302 http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors): "[It is error to believe that] The (Catholic) Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect." Section V, Errors Concerning the Church and Her Rights, #24. http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
Catholics never killed anyone to make sure that they were damned. False.
The native Americans were killed and hered into reservations by Protestant America. Cotton Mather didn't get the emails on love; neither did 10 out of the original 13 colonies whose Protestant faction killed or drove out the others. The poor Baptists were driven south away from the colonies because of their beliefs. The Quakers were nearly wiped out in Massachussets by the Calvinists and the survivors barely fled to Pennsylvania.
Oh and many BIBLE BELIEVING Christians also spend hours trying to point out to those they think are in err and in danger of being damned the error of their ways on threads just like this. You see the difference is BIBLE BELIEVING Christians don’t think like the world does.
Have you ever heard an evangelical radio station and compared it to, say, Relevant Radio? You are correct - there is a real difference. Ever been to a real old fashioned fundamentalist service that turns into a foaming, screaming, deranged anti Catholic diatribe? Yup, there's a real difference. Ever picked a tract up from under your windshield wipers? Very much of a difference. Ever seen the editorials, cartoons and articles of most of the 1800s in the US and England? Very much of a difference. These Bible Believing Christians may not think like the world does, but they closely resemble the Wahhabis in their mosques and madrassahs.
Oh and BIBLE BELIEVING Christians don’t force conversions either because if you don’t come and surrender your life to Christ willingly your NOT one.
The record of forced conversions throughout England and Scotland is clear. How many Catholics died at the hands of the Crown and Anglican church because they refused to convert?
Good verses; we should all live by them.
Whatever happened to “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”?
Why bother? You've done the legwork for me. Thanks. Nice to see all 3 Synoptic Gospels agree. Now let me ask you this: what do you think of Herod's end?
You’re explaining what you see as their offences and that is informative but quite beside the the issue I put to you.
and that was the question of whether there was any teaching, example or principle of Christ’s teaching authorizing his followers to kill or do harm, persecute, etc. those who disagreed with them.
I appreciate your responses about what would I do but that is really irrelevant to the question. No matter what I do or do not it hasn’t any pertinence to what it appears you defend, the killing and persecution of those the Catholic Church deems “heretics” and worthy of death.
“You would never kill anyone for any reason?”
I might if I accepted the validity of your logic and followed the example of the Popes instead of Christ’s teaching and example.
How about a trade: 100 Jesuits for 50 Greek monks and a quantity of ouzo to be named later?
Instead of finger pointing, could you just actually condemn what the Catholic church did as wrong?
Medieval Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Inquisition
Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
“Now let me ask you this: what do you think of Herod’s end?”
Had I been consulted he might have been permanently retired much sooner, maybe that’s why I’m not in charge of such decisions.
I think it was said of Herod by a contemporary that it was better to be Herod’s pig than his subject.
Do you understand Latin?
That is another issue. If you can't agree that the scriptures exists and are infallible, then it doesn't matter who approves what, does it?
I never disputed that the Scriptures exist - that is a silly statement. It matters very much who approves the meaning of something. It's the job of the Church to produce, maintain, interpret and distribute Scripture and to teach the Faith.
Otherwise, it's amateur night every night in the houses of the Protestants. Or watching high school football. It can be entertaining, but it's chock full of errors.
Thank you very much. Your's is not a unique view in the Church. I hope some will realize how much error Rome is teaching these days and how far the Church has moved from it's foundation.
I guess that you may not be paying attention to what I'm actually saying. The Church interpretation of Scripture is infallible. Scriptures are not infallible because they can be and are used to formulate and justify, for example, the Cathar dualism heresy.
Any ally is welcome when engaging in antiCatholicism. And useful...
Angels were created with their own will. They are not automatons. The rebellion of Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels by itself indicates that. Scripture does not indicate that that has changed.
When we depart from being dependent on the Lord, we will fail. Which is exactly what the Lord is trying to teach us as Christians-to become more dependent on Him. The other 2/3 of the angels are totally dependent on the Lord.
What is our purpose, Harley? Revelation 7 gives us a description:
Revelation 7: 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence. 16 ‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them,’[a] nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; ‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’[b] ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”
If we do not depend upon God and His Mercy, then we will not fulfill our created purpose.
And this is different from the Catholic church calling all those who disagree with them *heretics* how?
And about that *anathema* stuff that the Catholic church pronounces on those who disagree with it......
Everything I see you condemn Protestantism for, the Catholic church is guilty of at least a hundredfold.
My undergrad was chemical engineering - process design and control. I do lean manufacturing, integration of design and manufacturing engineering, and demand flow systems.
And in the end I'm stronger in my faith -- if other folks want to be Calvinist or even Moslem,Hindu etc. let them. If they ask me why I believe what I believe, I'll tell them. If they attack the Christian faith, then the gloves come off.
I suspect that that is why we generally get along very well.
One of the problems with this statement is that the Tradition existed long before the NT Scriptures were written and centuries before they were chosen. And that Tradition continues to this day. The Icons were created to remind the illiterate supermajority of the day of aspects of the Faith. They predated NT Scripture as well.
What did Jesus do in the NT?
As was pointed out before - in the three Synoptic Gospels, He told the 70 that the towns that refused to accept them would be destroyed.
God doesn't force anyone to believe.
You hang out here with a bunch of people who believe the opposite.
Aside from the fact that everyone on this forum knows how totally wrong that statement is, can you provide us with exactly what traditions it is that were passed down from the apostles and how we know that they're genuine and the right ones.
What are your sources to verify and validate the traditions you claim were passed on from the apostles (allegedly) before Scripture was was written?
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