Numbers: Why You Can't Count on Them (Various Religious adherents - Lds & Otherwise - Open)

Religion Writers.com ^

[Colofornian]

Whoever said “Numbers never lie” was not a religion reporter. Beware of confidently using specific numbers about religious identification or belief. Here’s why.

• The U.S. Census, the usual standard for counting people and their characteristics, does not ask people their religious affiliation.

• There is no single religion survey that is considered to be the most reliable (see Page 27). The results differ depending on what options are offered, how people are contacted, how many people are surveyed and other factors. Numbers can vary widely, and many faith groups are so small that they rarely show up on surveys in proportion to their actual numbers. Some traditions – predominantly African-American denominations, for example – are typically underrepresented because of difficulty in obtaining numbers.

• With Roman Catholics, there is one pope and a highly structured hierarchy that tracks membership. But in many religions, such as Islam, there is no official governing body and no official count.

• Some faiths, such as the fast-growing Pentecostal movement, include people from many denominations, so there is no central record-keeping. Evangelical Christians are difficult to count because they often belong to nondenominational churches, official denominations or sometimes none at all.

• Denominations and religions count their members differently, if at all, so it is difficult to compare their sizes. For example, the Southern Baptist Convention, which does not baptize infants, counts people who are baptized. The United Methodist Church,which baptizes infants, counts people once they are confirmed. Mosques don’t require membership, so estimates of Muslims are just that – estimates.

• Formal affiliation with a religious group doesn’t give a complete picture. Only about half of Jews in the U.S. are affiliated with synagogues, so the National Jewish Population Survey uses four questions to determine Jewish identity.

• Some houses of worship or faith groups can be competitive about touting numbers of adherents or members, to the point that the number of Muslims and Jews in America has become highly politicized. For example, one survey by Jewish researchers counted fewer than 3 million Muslims at a time when Muslim groups were claiming numbers as high as 6 million. In contrast, some churches, such as the Church of Christ, Scientist, do not publish statistics because its numbers have declined so much.

• Categories are controversial. Mormons consider themselves Christian, but most Christian groups do not. Messianic Jews, who believe Jesus was the messiah Jews await, consider themselves Jewish, but most Jews consider them Christian.

  There are only estimates of the number of Buddhists, who are difficult to count in part because immigrants and American converts practice so differently. Also, some people meditate or practice aspects of Buddhism but don’t consider themselves Buddhist, or they combine Buddhism with another faith, such as Judaism, resulting in people who call themselves “JewBus.”

• Beware of calling any faith the “fastest-growing” in any context. Any number of faiths have been called the fastest-growing in the United States or the world, often without any documentation. Salt Lake Tribune reporter Peggy Fletcher Stack wrote a 2006 story debunking the myth that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the fastest-growing faith in the world and reporting that the Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God and Pentecostal groups were growing faster.

• Poll results differ, depending on how questions are asked. This applies not only to believers, but also to descriptions of their beliefs. For example, people’s stated beliefs about a divine role in creation vary depending on the number and types of choices they are given.

• People frequently lie when asked about religion, perhaps out of a desire to look good and perhaps out of denial. Prominent national surveys such as those by Gallup and others generally show that about 40 percent of those in the U.S. say they attend worship services on any given Sunday, but numerous studies have found that the actual number is much closer to 25 percent.

• Sophisticated advocacy groups promote their own polls,which support their own agendas. Beware of spin.

How to make it all add up

Don’t let the size of faith groups – either nationally or locally – overly influence your coverage. You’ll likely do more stories on Catholics and evangelicals because of their numbers, but many groups’ impact and influence outstrip their size. The Episcopal Church is small, but its battles over homosexuality are closely watched. Jews are less than 2 percent of the population but have an important voice. Buddhism has relatively few followers but permeates the culture. All the general guidelines of good journalism apply when quoting statistics in religion stories. In addition:

• Be specific about what numbers represent. For example, specify what numbers are based on (worship attendance, membership, baptism, etc.).

• Be careful with comparisons. If you have apples and oranges, say so and note that two groups’ definition of “member” differs.

• Look carefully at poll questions and results yourself, rather than accepting one statistic without question. The poll, as a whole,may tell a different story.

• Check to see if different organizations have done polls on the same subject. Polling Report.com and search engines make this easy.

Disputed statistics

1 Give a range of numbers or qualify a statistic if it is in doubt: There are 4 million to 7 million Muslims in America, according to various surveys. There are well more than 1 million Hindus, experts say.

2 Note when numbers are disputed: Say a group says it has 5 million followers, but others (specify who and why) say otherwise.

3 Quote two numbers from different sources.

4 Characterize the amount, if the specific number is not necessary. Sometimes the number is not controversial in a story and it is enough to say that the denomination has “more than doubled,” without debating whether it has tripled.

[Elsie]

 "I have seen several entirely sincere people who thought they were (permanent) Seekers after Truth. They sought diligently, persistently, carefully, cautiously, profoundly, with perfect honesty and nicely adjusted judgment--until they believed that without doubt or question they had found the Truth. That was the end of the search. The man spent the rest of his life hunting up shingles wherewith to protect his Truth from the weather. If he was seeking after political Truth he found it in one or another of the hundred political gospels which govern men in the earth; if he was seeking after the Only True Religion he found it in one or another of the three thousand that are on the market. In any case, when he found the Truth he sought no further; but from that day forth, with his soldering-iron in one hand and his bludgeon in the other he tinkered its leaks and reasoned with objectors." (from What is Man?)

-- Mark Twain

 

[Elsie]

PD; I like this link, too!

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Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

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FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice.

 

 

[Elsie]

OOooohhh!

PD!!

I LIKE this link!

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Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship Mission Statement

The Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship exists to:

• Describe and defend the Restoration through highest quality scholarship
• Provide critically edited, primary resources (ancient religious texts) to scholars and laypersons around the world
• Build bridges of understanding and goodwill to Muslim scholars by providing superior editions of primary texts
• Provide an anchor of faith in a sea of LDS Studies

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[Elsie]

PD; you have got some EXCELLANT web links!

I'm SO glad you've posted them!!!

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Godhead

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe, as do other Christians, in one Supreme Being who governs the universe, and who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-loving. However, Mormons don't believe that He works alone but as the presiding member of what they call the godhead.

The Bible dictionary says that God is “The Supreme Governor of the universe and the Father of mankind. We learn from the revelations that have been given that there are three separate persons in the Godhead: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. From latter-day revelation we learn that the Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bone, and that the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit without flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22-23).”

 Mormons believe that these three gods—”separate in personality {but}. . . united as one in purpose, in plan, and in all the attributes of perfection” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 317)—are the partnership which rules the universe, with God the Eternal Father the controlling and governing power. LDS Apostle James E. Talmage states it this way: “These constitute the Holy Trinity, comprising three physically separate and distinct individuals, who together constitute the presiding council of the heavens” (Jesus the Christ, p. 32).

This belief is distinct from the traditional Christian doctrine of the Trinity, which generally maintains that they are three persons but one in essence. All three members of the Godhead are eternal and equally divine, but play somewhat different roles.

 

 

(From MORMON.wiki --->  http://www.mormonwiki.com/Godhead )   Move along: no agenda here...

[Elsie]

Yup, PD, REALLY good links!

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God the Father

Our Heavenly Father, also called Elohim, stands in the exalted position above all beings.

 However, Joseph Smith says that “. . . he is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! . . . .If you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, form, and image of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another” (Documentary History of the Church, p. 305).

 

 

Yup; the same source as above http://www.mormonwiki.com/Godhead 

[Elsie]

Oh, PD...

THIS is rich!

 

The purpose of this section is not to prove that the claims of the Church are true.

 

From lightplanet

 

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Shrinking Hoard of Mormonic Locusts

[Godzilla]

Shrinking Hoard of Mormonic Locusts

Wrong - crickets!!!!

[Paragon Defender]

I see you found where you stored your List-o-Links®. I was being to think you were over being shown how lame they are are

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I’ll let you know as soon as anyone does that. Haven’t seen it yet. Only more proof of what I am saying is true.

[svcw]

Only more proof of what I am saying is true.

aaahhh No. You don't say anything.

[Paragon Defender]

aaahhh No. You don’t say anything.

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lol even more proof what I am saying is true. (and said many many times)

[svcw]

I have decided to help you out here, from now on your response should be: Surely you don't expect an honest answer, when your question/comment exposes the weakness of my entire position.

[Colofornian]

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12

So, the fly-by-night Lds apology org, FAIR, has that Revelation verse they highlight -- but forget to tell people about all the changes Joseph Smith made to the book of Revelation in his unGreek-knowledged distortion of the book in his JST -- even though the author of revelation specifically warned vs. making changes to the book?

And FAIR embraces Rev. 3:12 while ignoring numerous verses in Revelation 21 about how God's going to live with all children eternally...not just married Mormon ones in good standing with a piece of paper (the temple recommend)?

[Elsie]

Haven’t seen it yet.

How 'bout yer dog?

Has HE seen it?

[Elsie]

lol even more proof what I am saying is true. (and said many many times)