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Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender
The most inaccurate theme that comes up repeatedly is that Mormons don’t believe in Jesus Christ as Savior —
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They dont...
While the Christians believe that the LORD Jesus Christ is God...always was God...is the Messiah, the Savior...the Judge of all, male and female, black and white...
Not only do the mormons believe that their mormon jesus was nos not god but a man...they also add Joey Smith as a savior and judge...and even more important than their mormon jesus...who seems to have nothing to do with the decision of whether or not a white mormon male gets into his mormon afterlife...
Mormon Doctrine on Judgement
Joseph Smith...does sit in judgment on us according to Brigham Young and others who tell us he must “certify” us into glory”
“If I ever pass into heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of Prophet Joseph”
—Brigham Young
—JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
False Prophecies
Second President Brigham Young once remarked,
“I know that Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God, that this is the Gospel of salvation, and if you do not believe it you will be damned, every one of you”
(Journal of Discourses 4:298, March 29, 1857).
On October 9, 1859, Young said,
“From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are — I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent”
(Journal of Discourses 7:289).
“He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be.”
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god...”
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]”
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.”
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
...to get by Joseph Smith...
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
—Brigham Young
—JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
False Prophecies
Just to make myself clear about all my post from yesterday.I did not come here to belittle anyone about their beliefs. How far would a thread get if it was on an anti-jewish platform. It would probably get deleted and the poster reprimanded within 50 post. I just don’t see a need to insult anybody about their faith, and as shown by the last few post,become childish about it. To me all religions are like alcohol. Some light and fruity, some strong and bitter, some leave you with a hangover and for those that have a daily diet of any of it, need more and more of it to make it through the day. Sort of like some beer comercial. More taste less filling, The king of beers,the land of sky blue waters etc.So no matter what flavor you like or wich one agrees with you the most, in the end any of them will get you drunk if you drink enough of it.So, thats my outlook about religion, ya’ll have a nice day and thanks for playing.
In case you misunderstood JR is not the wicked man those who promote contention are the wicked ones
read the whole scripture not just the verse.
Yeah, I saw that. Still don’t know why anyone plays with the fool.
LOL
Oh Resty
after attempting to use the words of the Christian Bible as a weapon against a Chtistian...
You pop just ONE verse from your own book of mormon into your argument right at the end...
“Jacob 7:
23 And it came to pass that peace and the love of God was restored again among the people; and they searched the scriptures, and hearkened no more to the words of this wicked man.”
“and hearkened no more to the words of this wicked man.” is a link... to what ???
and who is the “wicked man”
Is this what you think of Jim Robinson ???
Well, eastforker, in my opinion you should consider going on the "FR Religion Forum Wagon" and stick with the forums that don't offend your agnostic sensibilities.
Ya see, what we do on the Religion Forum is discuss religion...all day every day. Perhaps you could post a thread yourself in which to discuss "Lack of Religious Belief, Pro or Con" but I'd suggest it go up in the chat forum.
Have a good day.
All I can say is that you (and others) are missing the whole point. The Jews are not presenting themselves as christians. The Mormons are. The Christians know they are not. The Christians post official LDS writings and scripture so people can see where they diverge.
Nobody would get bent out of shape if they went about being Mormon and quit trying to take a ride on the “Christian” brand name.
We’d still love them and try to evangelize them.
Yep, BINGO. Its the dishonesty and deceptive practices that have me riled up. Muslems do the same btw, they call it Taqiyya. Just burns me up. Be open and upfront about what you believe and don't believe is all we ask.
We'd still evangelize and pray for etc. etc. but sheez - just be honest for pete's sake!
Are you calling Jim wicked, trying to get banned? Even if you got banned, would it prove anti-Mormon bias, or just that you were insulting? You are failing to display the charity found in the Bible passage you quoted.
When you try to be clever in using scripture to try and insult someone (you spittled in closing, "and hearkened no more to the words of this wicked man" ... and you directed that at Jim Robinson who allows your religion to post at Freerepublic!), you are not loving the other, you are feeding your twisted ego. Astonishingly, you appear incapable of shame as you repeatedly insult the host.
There is a thread on exmormon.org right now discussing the fact that the temple has now replaced Joseph Smith as the object of mormon worship.
Very informative and interesting comments.
Oh good - Joseph worship is out and the temple is now our Golden Calf
Example: "They do worship the temple. Why? The temple is their key population control mechanism. They prepare the youth for years to attend and get married in the temple. It allows them to shame members who don't pay a full tithing or slack on callings. Temple marriage is the big stick they church likes to swing. Once you get the system, it's a really sick form of manipulation.
If Jesus was really important to them, Jesus would be on the temple and not Moroni. Jesus is only used to make Mormonism more acceptable than it would be without the Jesus image. Jesus is just a public relations tool."
Very similar to what we say here, except for the general anti-church comment.
No, not missing the point, I do understand.Like someone who is 1/8 cherokee proclaiming to be a native American.Or some one who is half black and half white, he would never be labeled a white man for he will always be refered to as black, no matter how he sees himself.Racial intolerance to me is right up there with religious intolerance and I won’t indulge in that.Maybe we need a new word around here, FRinquisition might fit the bill.
I know I would be less free if I left Mormonism — for I would be abandoning the truth: “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free”
As far as my salvation is concerned, I would not expect to receive the blessings of exaltation — the highest reward available to God’s children.
What my eternal destination would be, I don’t know. I don’t know the mind of God, who judges “all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts” Doctrine and Covenants 137:9
I weas just reading that...
A letter from a mormon bishop informing the members that the “theme” for this year is “Making the Temple the Great Symbol of Our Faith.”
If they were honest they would no longer belong to the LDS...
Of course many are lying to the world, others, just to themselves...
I don't believe that for a N.Y. minute...
Kinda reminds of the time you agreed that a FReeper could have been the killer of a mormon...Then you backtracked like an escaped con, trying to fool the posse on his heels.
It ain't working here either, sister!
Are you mind reading again…
Think what you want, think the worst, the glass is always half empty etc.
Well that is not the Lord Counsel.
Search the scriptures is good advice which enables one to discern which is the Lord’s way and not get fleece.
Lying in this “church” is “hiding pearls from the swine;” stealing is taking as the Lord’s agents; seducing other people’s wives is exalting, and killing people is saving them.
Wilhelm Ritter von Wymetal “Joseph Smith the prophet, his family and friends” (1886) p 165.
Prophets, apostles and even gods bend to its will...
Posting conflicting or contradictory information about a belief system is not the same as “insulting anybody”.
But truth be told, your angst really should be directed at the mormons then if you’re going to stay on that line of thinking. They’re the ones who “insulted everyone else” because their founder came out firing with the “all are an abomination” statement.
We don’t view exposing that information as a game.
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