A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura

Catholic Fidelity.Com ^ | Dave Armstrong

[Cronos]

Of course there is a scriptural basis for this -- St. Paul himself told those he appointed as leaders to choose their successors. We do not have an inherited Levite priesthood. There's no scriptural basis for having a pastor go to pastoral college either. There's no scriptural basis for having a greco-Roman pulpit.

note that if you read the Didache (AD 70) you'll find that the early Church, the Apostolic Church also believed the same way. If you read the writings of Irenaeus (1st century), Ignatius (1st/2nd century),

[Cronos]

Ok, who says that the 12’s commision to spread the Gospel is not incumbent on every believer? That’s the Church’s mission statement.

[Cronos]

Ben: "If you deny that the Son is God, then you aren’t a Christian. Something else for sure, but not a Christian."

Bob : This is the teaching of your church, the church of the Magisterium.

ok, so does that mean that you, Bob, agree with Zuriel's belief that Jesus Christ is not God?


Is this standard belief in your Protestant group?

The comedian, boatbums, bkaycee, sr -- do you agree with Bob that teaching that Jesus Christ, the Son IS God is just a teaching of The Church and that teaching should be rejected by Protestants?

[BenKenobi]

Uh, I’m Catholic now, but this is something I learned when I was a protestant.

[Cronos]

Sorry, bk=bkaycee :-)

[aMorePerfectUnion]

If someone denies the divinity of Christ, he is not a Christian.

[The Comedian]

If you can refute that, refute it. If not, go back to your insane community and keep believing that J Smith is a deity.

I'm not a Mormon. But that's about the level of discernment I'd expect from someone who is completely dedicated to the anti-Biblical traditions of men which flow out of Rome.

Now, back to your rosary.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[Cronos]

Thank you. I sincerely believe that most of whom we call "Protestants" are true Christians. I may disagree with you guys, but we can converse, we can share our Faith in our Lord God Jesus Christ

However, on FR religion forum there are many folks who violently attack catholics and use slurs, insults and lies -- and when you enquire, you find out that these are not Protestants who are Christian, rather they are unitarians, opcers, anti-trinitarians etc. masquerading as Christians so that they can foment discord and hatred between Christians.

A non-Catholic such as yourself may disagree strongly with Church teachings, but you are civil, you are true to Christ's teachings of love and you sincerly want to tell us what you see as the truth. I can respect that and respect a person who loves others so much she wishes to tell them the message of Christ as they see it.

[Bobsvainbabblings]

You didn't answer my questions.

 

Is Peter a Christian because he didn't call Jesus God?

 

Did Jesus sin when He didn't correct him if he is God?

 

If you polled Christians, they would probably agree with you because of your Church's teaching. That doesn't mean it is true.

 

The Apostles creed states that Jesus is the Son of God. I tend to believe them more than a decision made by men using a majority vote 300+ years later who made the penalty for disagreeing with them excommunication from their Church. 

 

Christ never made believing He is God a requirement for being a member of His Church. Why would men? 

 

BVB

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Cronos,
I believe a great many Roman Catholics, Orthodox,
Protestant and other Theology groups are True
Christians - sometimes in spite of what they have
been taught. Truth can withstand rigorous inquiry
and I appreciate honest discourse with members
in all groups.

For the record, I have often seen condescention, arrogance and
the equivalent from all groups.

In the end, I fellowship and value all True Christians from any origin since
We are all part of the Body and Bride of Christ.

Best, ampu (a he, btw)

[Jvette]

John 16:12=15 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot hear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

It was not the original twelve, thirteen counting Paul who defined the doctrine of the Trinity.

It was not the original twelve, thirteen counting Paul who defined the deity/humanity of Christ.

It was not the original twelve, thirteen counting Paul, who rejected the many heresies that arose concerning the two natures of Jesus as true man and still truly God.

It was not the original twelve, thirteen counting Paul, who determined the canon of Scripture.

Those writing the New Testament did not know they were writing Scripture. To them Scripture was the Old Testament.

At what point did the Holy Spirit stop guiding us to truth?

Scripture certainly does contain all we need to know but does it contain all there is to know?

[Natural Law]

"I'm not a Mormon."

A difference without a distinction. That is about the level of diecernment I would expect from someone who is completely dedicated to the anti-Christian and anti-Catholic traditions of men which flow out of Geneva.

People who believe as you do are Paulians. Rather than finding a new Gospel in golden tablets Paulians have found their new Goepel in the Letters of Paul by assigning them a context and place in the Scriptural hierarchy greater than the Word revealed directly by Jesus Christ.

Were Christianity to be a religion of a book there would have been no need for God to have sent His only begotton Son, he would have sent us only the equivalent of the golden tablets or the Letters of Paul.

[Bobsvainbabblings]

You either didn't read my first post or didn't understand my stand on whether your Church, the Church of the Magisterium, should restrict your answers to scripture. I made no such claim.

I stated that your Church doesn't claim to limit your teachings to scripture. It includes the writings and traditions of the church fathers to be used to form your belief system.

As to your 5 questions as to what Scripture or writings we should use comes with the supposition that the Canon we have today is not inspired by God and/or does not include all a person needs to know for their salvation. 

I believe the Canon we have today is inspired by God and contains all a person needs to know for his or her salvation with the Holy Spirit's guidance.

BVB    

[Cronos]

You supposedly think that limbo is non-biblical, yet I told you

(Luke 16:22). Jesus told the Good Thief that the two of them would be together "this day" in "Paradise" (Luke 23:43; see also Matthew 27:38); but between on the Sunday of his resurrection he said that he had "not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17).

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell”—Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell. Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him

For Limbo of the infants, note that the very term is not and has never been, defined doctrine. All the Church says is

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.

Now take those two points and compare it with what you were taught The Church believes -- and you'll see that whoever fed you the falsehoods was lying.

If you can refute that, refute it. If not, go back to your insane community which believes in lies.

[Natural Law]

"I believe the Canon we have today is inspired by God and contains all a person needs to know for his or her salvation with the Holy Spirit's guidance."

As does the Catholic Church, however we do not believe that the Holy Spirit, after guiding the hand of the Church in establishing canon, took a permanent hiatus.

"I believe the Canon we have today is inspired by God and contains all a person needs to know for his or her salvation with the Holy Spirit's guidance."

Would you go so far as to say that the Synoptic Gospels and the direct Words of Christ are by themselves sufficient? How about the Beatitudes?

[The Comedian]

Well there's a few things we agree on:

Neither one of us has an ounce of respect for the other, we hold each other in complete contempt, and we don't even speak the same theological language.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[The Comedian]

You are defending the indefensible, denying the manifestly obvious, and displaying the insight of a parrot.

Back to your community of celibate pedophiles.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[Natural Law]

"Well there's a few things we agree on:"

And there are even more things we disagree on beginning with a (not so) witty retort being a sufficient counter argument. Perhaps you should just walk away and leave the attempts at humor to real comedians.

[Cronos]

Yet the difference is that NL is Christian and filled with the Love of Christ. On the contrary if one can't take the mystery that is the Trinity, the Cross and the Resurrection then one is not Christian

Ordinary man has always been sane (because) he has always cared more for truth than for consistency. If he saw two truths that seemed to contradict each other, he would take the two truths and the contradiction along with them. his spiritual sight is stereoscopic, like his physical sight: he sees two different pictures at once and yet he sees all the better for that

[Cronos]

realise that all those who tell you to hate The Church lie about it's teachings. Quote to this liar, 1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father, [and] the younger men as brethren.

Quote to him, Matthew 23: 8-10 But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your teacher; and all you are brethren. [9] And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven. [10] Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ.

So, if you are not supposed to call any man teacher then why do you address your teachers as such? Why do you call a Doctor,'doctor' (it's just the Latin word for teacher)? Why in Matthew 28:19-20 does Christ say "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Why does Paul say For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7); "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher" (2 Tim. 1:11). ?

Why does Paul tell us that that the Church has an office of teacher: "God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Cor. 12:28); and "his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4:11).?

Why do you call men "Master" Why call them "Mister" and "Mistress (Mrs)" which are forms of the word "master"?

If you stopped calling people teacher, doctor, Mr., Mrs, because of this, that is a misunderstanding of Christ’s words due to solo scriptura

If you can refute scripture, go ahead and try. Otherwise, You are defending the indefensible, denying the manifestly obvious.

If you wish to return to your community of insane pedophiles, go ahead. If you wish to turn away from these and come to Christ, drop in at any Church.