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To: HossB86
Sorry Hoss, you are picking up only a bit of the conversation and that gives you a contextual problem. The only "co" statements have been with respect to an assertion that the statement that Mary is considered by some to be the "Co-redeemer" it is the Catholic position that she is in some way equal with Christ. I simply answered that in this context, the translation into English was flawed. It means only she participated with Jesus in our redemption.

Mary is not unique in the cooperation and participation on our redemption. St. Augustine described the doctrine that moves us to an ever more complete participation in our Redeemer's sacrifice which we celebrate in the Eucharist:

"This wholly redeemed city, the assembly and society of the saints, is offered to God as a universal sacrifice by the high priest who in the form of a slave went so far as to offer himself for us in his Passion, to make us the Body of so great a head.... Such is the sacrifice of Christians: "we who are many are one Body in Christ" The Church continues to reproduce this sacrifice in the sacrament of the altar so well-known to believers wherein it is evident to them that in what she offers she herself is offered."

1,491 posted on 12/21/2010 2:23:31 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

That rationalization doesn’t cut it.

“With” is about as heretical as “co-.”

So, Mary was an existential postal person for delivering Christ’s mortal personhood to this sphere.

Even if the postman brings a big check, we don’t usually carry him around on a throne therefrom.

Therefore?

Therefore she was THEREIN blessed.

Period.

Deed done. Job over.

Christ made abundantly clear that John the Baptist was a greater mortal than ALL born of women [logically save Christ, of course].

Further, that those obedient to The Father’s will were equally Christ’s blood relatives just as his mother, father, brothers and sisters were His blood relatives.

There is absolutely NO Biblical, nor historical nor logical justification for elevating Mary WHATSOEVER.

There’s a LOT of Biblical justification for doing absolutely NOTHING of the kind whatsoever.

I’ve posted the relevant Scriptures enough, I’ll not, this time.


1,494 posted on 12/21/2010 3:29:28 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Natural Law

” I simply answered that in this context, the translation into English was flawed. It means only she participated with Jesus in our redemption.”

Uh, no she didn’t. Did she hang on the cross? Did she shed her blood for the remission of our sins? Please, please, please, please, please cite scripture that ascribes to Mary ANY office or authority to participate with Christ in our redemption!!!!

“St. Augustine described the doctrine....”
Based on what scriptural reference(s)?

I can provide some that show that Christ alone is our redeemer and intercessor:
1 Tim. 2:5-7
“5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.”

Hmm. Nothing there about Mary.

Acts 4:11-12
“11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

How about from Jesus’ mouth directly — direct from God:
John 14:6
“6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.””

Mary didn’t participate in ANY way with Christ in order to secure our redemption or salvation. She bore him. She is in no way equal with him, working with him or providing any intercession for us. Sorry.

Hoss


1,497 posted on 12/21/2010 3:43:21 PM PST by HossB86
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