Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary

Why I Am a Catholic ^ | 12/16/10 | Frank Weathers

[AnalogReigns]

Let me see now, the first generation of Reformers—after over 1000 years of religious conformity enforced by the execution by burning of dissenters—kept some extra-biblical beliefs about Mary, which the 2nd generation of the Reformation—and Protestants ever since, rejected. THAT convinces him to be a Catholic?

Hmmmm, didn’t take much, eh?

[xone]

One of your pals tried to tell me that Luther later recanted those words but I'm still waiting for a reference or link to back up that statement. Maybe you could provide it.

While Luther held that belief, it didn't have sufficient Scriptural warrant to be held as doctrine of the 'Lutheran' church. Confessional Lutheran doctrine isn't based on personal opinion unsupported by Scripture.

[raygunfan]

thanx, enuff twisting to satisfy the roller coaster fan in all of us....

[Deo volente]

[Iscool]

Purgatory happens after we meet Jesus face to face at the final Judgment.

Interesting...I didn't realize that was Catholic theology...

So when a Catholic dies, his soul lays unconscious in the ground until the judgment???

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Scripture says we are already in the presence of heaven...

God, who dwells within the temple (the body of the believer) is going to lay in the ground until we are raised at the last judgment???

The scriptures covers a lot of area that makes it impossible for purgatory to exist...

Corinthians explicitly says that those who’s works do not bear the test will escape through the flames. Every Christian will face this test. Some will pass and some will fail.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

There is absolute proof that you are 100% wrong...

Corinthians does not explicitly or implicitly say what you claim it does...

Every Christian's works will bear the test, not the Christian...The bad works are burned, not the Christian...

It's like you might attend a wedding wearing dirty old rags...You are not rejected or sent off because you look so poorly...Your clothes are ripped off of you and burned and you are given a new suit of white linen...Right on the spot...

[Iscool]

Then he wasn’t sinless because he suffered from Original Sin. Adam’s curse.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus in the flesh, died...Would there be no death in the flesh had the flesh been sinless??? Perhaps you could ask Adam...

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Now that's some pretty powerful stuff...

There is no reason to think that God could not be born into a body that was subject to Adam's original sin and yet still be sinless...

Because I am subject to original sin, I am tempted to sin, I feel pain, I get old or sick and die...Or someone runs a spear thru me...But yet, I still live...I will be resurrected with a new, glorified body...

Was anything different for Jesus???

Was Jesus body void of original sin or was Jesus said to have committed no sin???

1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

[Iscool]

Of course those who do not so worship her, can fully accept her having been fully blessed by God to be the mother of Christ Jesus and still be a woman married to Joseph who later bore him many children.

So true...Where's the miracle of the incarnation if Mary was some rogue, sinless creature who was not one of us???

[Campion]

isn’t it clear that James was “the brother of Jesus”?

Acts 1:13 and Luke 6:16 both say that Jude/Judas was the son of James.

Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 both call Jude/Judas and James the "brothers" of Jesus.

Jude 1:1 says that Jude/Judas was the brother of James.

Sounds like "brother" is a generic Hebraic usage for "closely associated male relative" and cannot be assumed to mean "full brother," or even necessarily "half brother".

[Judith Anne]

I don’t know what purgatory means because scripture doesn’t define it; the Roman Catholic Church does.

As far as I have learned the Catholic Church does not define purgatory either, other than to claim it is purification of those who die with unrepented sins. That could happen to anyone. Some Catholic theologians have speculated that the purification is as by fire, but others have remained silent.

I Cor. 3:11-15 says: "For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

[Judith Anne]

Absolutely beautiful.

[Quix]

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[Deo volente]

[Quix]

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[RobbyS]

Sir/Madame.

Please understand the significance of the nihil obstat and the imprimatur.
It means that the work contains nothing that the Church has condemned. That does not means that it is an official document of the Church. One book might take a literal view of Genesis, another a liberal view. But if neither says anything that the Church has pronounced as heretical, then it gets the stamp. On a wide range of matters, including our relationship to Our Lady, there is considerable disagreement. Books on all sides get the stamp. YOU happen not to like the rhetoric used. YOU think it “heretical,” or “unbiblical.” I respect your right to think this. BUT your notion of what the Church actually teaches about Our Lady is simply wrong.

[Deo volente]

Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.

[Quix]

I’m aware of that.

The fact remains that the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology and Reality Mangling

from the Pope down

encourages such hideous idolatries, blasphemies and heresies

regardless of what SOME fine print in the Catechism says.

THE FACT REMAINS that rather high offices of the Vatican system hierarchy gave a knowledgeable approval and sanction for the kosherness of that hideous book.

[Judith Anne]

Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile, please show unto us the Blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus. Oh clement, oh loving, oh sweet Virgin Mary, please pray for us so that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

[Quix]

AND TO MY MEMORY

NO

RC HEREON

HAS *EVER*

given a candid, much less adequate and honestly fitting response to that fact.

All we get are rationalizations, justifications, excuses, blather yada yada yada.

interminably, ad nauseum, relentlessly, only.

Which, basically proves the point of how much the hideousness is entrenched in the system and in the minds and hearts of those addicted idolatrously to the system.

[Quix]

What typical ostentacious RC Rabid Clique ARROGANT HAUGHTINESS!

IIRC, the RM has made it clear that foreign language use on FR's Religion forum has to be translated.

However, thanks for begging me to post this yet again for new lurkers to get another chance to read the hideous truth about RC idolatries and blasphemies:

the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.

Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.

ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[Deo volente]

With all due respect, that's one of the strangest things I've ever read here. Many thousands of posts have been submitted by Roman Catholics on countless threads, giving cogent and detailed answers to Protestant questions, objections, etc.
Catholic teachings have been presented candidly, adequately, and honestly.
Sources, links, etc. have been exhaustively supplied.

You must have an extremely poor memory to have missed all those thousands of posts over the past ten years or so on this forum.