Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary

Why I Am a Catholic ^ | 12/16/10 | Frank Weathers

[Judith Anne]

Me either. Rain-misting here, but the clouds were very bright earlier, now getting dimmer...peaceful.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mary is not merely the mother of his human nature

Yes, Mary is merely the mother of his human nature. There is nothing in Scripture that tells us Mary contributed more than that.

Once again, RCs intrude upon God's domain and insert a fallible, fallen woman into the place belonging to God alone.

Creepy.

[Judith Anne]

Oh, Mary was “a fallen woman.”

In what sense?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Matthew 6:7

And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

comes to mind...

Well, it comes to a mind (like yours) that's been renewed by the Holy Spirit to understand the things of God.

Some others, not so much.

[Judith Anne]

Yes, Mary is merely the mother of his human nature. There is nothing in Scripture that tells us Mary contributed more than that.

How do you divide Christ Jesus' human nature from His God nature? BTW, Mary didn't just bear Him, give birth to Him; the Bible speaks of "His mother." Even the angels say, "Take the Child and His mother" etc. Matthew 2:10-12, 13-15, 19-20. The wise men worshipped the Child, not His mother. Same here.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Neither has any Pope ever declared Mary a co-redeemer

Do RC apologists just make this stuff up and hope no one catches it, or ...

Well, I can't think of another possibility.

In 1985, pope John Paul II declared Mary to be a "co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary's role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son."

In 1935, pope Pope Pius XI gave the title "Co-Redemptrix" to Mary during a radio broadcast.

Here, read this link and learn something...

HAIL MARY, CO-REDEEMER?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

How do you divide Christ Jesus' human nature from His God nature?

No need to "divide" them. Christ has a dual nature, as affirmed in the Athanasian Creed.

Christ received His divine nature from His perfect, divine Father, and His human nature from his human, fallible mother.

Here's a good explanation. Read it and learn...

THE DUAL NATURE OF JESUS CHRIST

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mary was a fallen human being, a sinner like the rest of us, saved by grace and grace alone.

And saved by grace in exactly the same way we’re saved. No special circumstances; no immaculate conception; no bodily ascension into heaven; no sinless life.

[Deo volente]

http://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/NESTOR.TXT

NESTORIANISM

Dates 428-800s, with remnants to today

Founder Nestorius, Bishop of Constantinople

Principal errors

Nestorius rejected the traditional doctrine of the Incarnation by implicitly denying the hypostatic union of human and divine natures in the one divine person of Jesus. This denial was characterized notably by the rejection of the title "Theotokos" ("God bearer" or "Mother of God") for the mother of Jesus. He claimed that Mary was the mother of Christ's human nature but not the mother of God and concluded that only Jesus the man suffered and died on the cross.


History

From the definitions and condemnations of the Arian heresy of the fourth century several things resulted. The divinity of Christ and the reality of his Incarnation were clearly established in the minds of the faithful. Consequently, the exaltation and veneration of Mary by the faithful became more widespread. Since Jesus was truly God and Mary was his mother, she was venerated with the title of Theotokos. This veneration was especially popular in the East.

Controversy erupted in 428 when Nestorius, the newly installed bishop of Constantinople, attacked the title "Theotokos" from the pulpit in the cathedral on Christmas day, claiming that Mary was the mother of Christ but not the mother of God. He stated that to call Mary the Mother of God implied that the divine nature was born of a woman, thus making her a goddess.

Immediately his teaching was attacked by the laity and the clergy of Constantinople. When word spread of this new doctrine, neighboring bishops condemned him outright. Chief among his critics was bishop Cyril of Alexandria who responded, "I am astonished that the question should ever have been raised as to whether the Holy Virgin should be called Mother of God, for it really amounts to asking, is her Son God or is he not?" He wrote to Nestorius condemning the heretical aspects of his doctrine and asking him to explain and defend himself. The reply betrayed even further the depth of his heresy.

Cyril sent his personal correspondence with Nestorius as well his own five-book response titled "Against Nestorius" to Pope Celestine in Rome for the pontiff's decision. The Holy Father gave a general condemnation of the teaching of Nestorius regarding Mary's divine maternity and commanded him to recant within ten days. Cyril was to receive the recantation or depose Nestorius. Far from submitting, Nestorius demanded an ecumenical council and proclaimed his beliefs more loudly than ever...

While claiming to believe in one Christ in two natures, his explanation described the union of two distinct persons: "He who was formed in the womb of Mary was not God himself, but God assumed him. Through him that bears I worship him who is born." A mother cannot bear a son older than herself, he contended. Therefore, Mary did not give birth to the incarnate Word of God, only to Jesus, the temple or vessel of God. Rejecting the orthodox sense of Theotokos, he opted instead for "Christokos" ("Mother of Christ"), saying that he could never bring himself to call the Christ-child God. Nestorius concluded that it was not God who suffered and died on the cross, but only the man Jesus...

Today most Protestant denominations display an element of Nestorianism. Protestants typically reject the title "Mother of God" while echoing Nestorius' contention that a son cannot be older than his mother. They find it difficult to say that God was born in Bethlehem, that God suffered and died on the cross at Calvary. Many Protestant theologians, on the other hand, recognize this element of Nestorianism and assent to the title "Mother of God," though they use it only infrequently.

[count-your-change]

It was I who misunderstood your comment. I too will try again.
If the Son of God, Second Person of the Trinity was such even before Mary existed then in what sense is Mary mother to God, Second Person of the Trinity?

[Judith Anne]

I’ve just been amusing myself reading this:

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/anticat_internet.htm

Have you ever read it?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Lutherans shouldn't be "in dialogue" with Catholics, no matter how much Rome tries to tell them idols are okay.

"Thus the Virgin Mary remains in the middle between Christ and humankind."

No, she's not. She's exactly where all Christians are; in Christ.

[Judith Anne]

Lutherans shouldn't be "in dialogue" with Catholics, no matter how much Rome tries to tell them idols are okay.

Because the OPC says so? Where does the OPC say so?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mary is not the Mother of God. Mary is a fallen human being like every other fallen human being, saved by grace alone.

Your repetitive verse from Luke does not reflect the abomination Rome tries to create in place of a simple Jewish girl blessed by God to carry the Christ child to term.

[Deo volente]

In the sense that He continues to be the Second Person of the Trinity FROM THE INSTANT He was Incarnate in the womb of the Virgin Mary, who became His Mother at that very instant.

Mary did not pre-exist the Second Person of the Trinity. She is, after all, a creature and had a beginning in time, like all creatures. But she BECAME HIS MOTHER when HE BECAME INCARNATE in her womb. He is ONE PERSON, but now also with a human nature. He is not two persons, however. The two natures are united in one Divine Person from the moment of the Incarnation onward.

Nestorianism is a denial of this truth.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Because the Bible says so.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" -- 2 Corinthians 6:14

[Judith Anne]

Here’s an amazing article. Is Harry Knox a friend of yours?

http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/04/08/obama-appoints-anti-catholic-bigot-to-advisory-council/

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nestorianism

You keep repeating that charge which just reveals you do not understand the term.

Christ is not "two persons."

And Mary is not the "Mother of God," a "Co-Redeemer," a Mediator" nor "Queen of Heaven."

[Judith Anne]

Oh, please. That passage has to do with marriage, not Lutherans and Catholics in dialogue.

Is that what the OPC teaches? That Lutherans and Catholics should not dialogue?

[Judith Anne]

Saying that Mary is the mother of God says more about Christ Jesus than it does about Mary. If Christ Jesus is not God, then who is he, according to the OPC?