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Two popular latter day errors are refuted by St. Irenaeus in this chapter of his writings. Firstly, an idea popular in Calvinist thought that God simply overpowers certain chosen souls ("the elect") with "irresistible grace" and selects them to be saved while leaving others in their misery. Secondly, an idea popular in certain pentecostal circles which says that "my ticket's punched and I'm already saved........guaranteed!!!".

Both abject heresies which are nowhere to be found in the writings of the early Church Fathers, as Irenaeus here makes abundantly clear.

1 posted on 12/16/2010 12:39:30 PM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; MilicaBee; Martin Tell; Salvation

Ping!


2 posted on 12/16/2010 12:40:35 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

All humans have free will and can choose right or wrong. This is in direct opposition to official leftist dogma that says that we have no free will and therefore have no responsibility for our actions.


3 posted on 12/16/2010 12:50:02 PM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (Liberalism is against human nature. Practicing liberalism is detrimental to your mental stability.)
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To: marshmallow

Love unconditionally and freely given from a sentient being is the greatest gift we can give God and each other. The question one must pose to those who dismiss or diminish the concept of free will is if God had not wanted us to love Him freely why did He not create us incapable of not loving Him.


5 posted on 12/16/2010 2:35:01 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: marshmallow

Just because one believes it, how does anyone really know if they could have chosen differently? Is there any way to prove it after the choice is made?


6 posted on 12/16/2010 2:42:05 PM PST by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: marshmallow
Chapter XXXIX.-Man is Endowed with the Faculty of Distinguishing Good and Evil; So That, Without Compulsion, He Has the Power, by His Own Will and Choice, to Perform God's Commandments, by Doing Which He Avoids the Evils Prepared for the Rebellious. - St Irenaeus

Pelagianism is a theological theory named after Pelagius (ad. 354 – ad. 420/440). It is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature (which God called very good), and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid. - Foreknown Encyclopedia

Joh 6:43-44 Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.

Irenaeus can be forgiven. He didn't have the Internet.

7 posted on 12/16/2010 4:59:15 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: marshmallow; Molly K.; Not gonna take it anymore; Celtic Cross; shurwouldluv_a_smallergov; ...
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Freep-mail me to get on or off my Catholic Apologetics and the Defense of the Faith ping list:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to Catholic threads where I can help defend our common faith!

9 posted on 12/16/2010 7:31:51 PM PST by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: marshmallow
Secondly, an idea popular in certain pentecostal circles which says that "my ticket's punched and I'm already saved........guaranteed!!!".

While you have framed this in a rather snide way ... the assurance of salvation is taught in the scriptures. I don't know how you can dismiss or interpret away 1 John 5:13. I have never heard a Catholic exegete this passage in a way that doesn't just dismiss it out-of-hand.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

"that you have" ... Present Active Indicative 2nd Person Plural. No ambiguity in the Greek tense at all.

Both abject heresies which are nowhere to be found in the writings of the early Church Fathers, as Irenaeus here makes abundantly clear

Perhaps you could find all the writings of the church fathers where they explain 1 John 5:13. Esp. Irenaeus ... who was a great-grandchild in the Lord of John himself.

13 posted on 12/17/2010 5:58:46 AM PST by dartuser ("The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has limits.")
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To: marshmallow
Firstly, an idea popular in Calvinist thought that God simply overpowers certain chosen souls ("the elect") with "irresistible grace"

Yes, it is a popular idea because the Lord Jesus Christ said it. He used the word "Elect" at least 10 times in the Gospels and of "Irresistible Grace" - have you never seen John 6: 37-65? Where the Lord Jesus Christ said “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them..." and "He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Note here it is the Father doing the work, Not the Son.

You must pay attention to the Lord Jesus Christ and not dismiss His Words!

17 posted on 12/17/2010 8:03:10 AM PST by sr4402
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To: marshmallow
“Free Will” is a man made doctrine. It tickles the ear of the hearer, but does not give an understanding of God. It denies the word “predestined”, “elect” and is quickly followed by errancy.
18 posted on 12/17/2010 8:10:58 AM PST by sr4402
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To: marshmallow
Now on your calendar of events where does St. Paul fit? Is he considered ‘early’ church, was he before St. Irenaeus?

Paul was a chosen vessel, and was doing his own free will on his way to Damascus when he got a face to face visit. Paul did not ask for this interruption in doing his will, but after this Heavenly visit, Paul ended up writing the majority of what is called the New Testament. And over and over Paul says there are some that were chosen/elected before the foundation (verb that means casting down/overthrow of the first rebel) of this heaven/earth age.

Paul earned his grace and election because he stood against the first rebel when the first rebel decided he was ‘god’ and drew a third of the sons of God into his rebellion.

23 posted on 12/17/2010 6:32:09 PM PST by Just mythoughts
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