Posted on 12/15/2010 5:09:09 PM PST by RnMomof7
In the sermon descriptively entitled, “That Hearing and Keeping the Word of God Renders a Person More Blessed Than Any Other Privilege That Ever God Bestowed on Any of the Children of Men,” Jonathan Edwards writes: The hearing and keeping the word of God brings the happiness of a spiritual union and communion with God. ‘Tis a greater blessedness to have spiritual communion with God and to have a saving intercourse with him by the instances of his Spirit and by the exercise of true devotion than it is to converse with God externally, to see the visible representation and manifestations of his presence and glory, and to hear his voice with the bodily ears as Moses did. For in this spiritual intercourse the soul is nigh unto and hath more a particular portion than in any external intercourse. ‘Tis more blessed to be spiritually related to Jesus Christ—to be his disciples, his brethren and the members—than to stand in the nearest temporal relation, than to be his brother or his mother. Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus, ed. Nancy Guthrie, 57.
What does the RCC teach about Mary? That she was a servant of The Lord and that’s where it ends?
HIS CHURCH, Jesus’, is built on HIS WORD, Jesus, Who is The Word. HIS Word always was and always will be and every man made teaching will burn as it has no place in His Kingdom.
Man made teachings are made for the counterfeit church - the RCC.
Keep it straight! Don’t try to confuse the issue because you were shown the Truth. Read what HIS Word SAYS and don’t contradict it by saying it doesn’t say this or that. It’s clearly shows a lack of knowledge of HIS WORD.
Besides don’t ask me, ask THE ONE who wrote God’s Word! Surely, you remember HIM? Or does Mary have to show you the way?
The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".about the Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle in Greek of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit.”
The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter").
Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit.
Luke 1:28 has the perfect passive participle, kecharitomene. The perfect stem of a Greek verb denotes the "continuance of a completed action";(Blass and DeBrunner, 175.) "completed action with permanent result is denoted by the perfect stem."(Smyth, sec. 1852:b.) On morphological grounds, therefore, it is correct to paraphrase kecharitomene as "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." This becomes clearer when we examine other New Testament examples of verbs in the perfect tense:(The next three examples are taken from Blass and DeBrunner, 175-176.)
1. "He has defiled this sacred place" (Acts 21:28)--their entrance in the past produced defilement as a lasting effect.
2. "The son of the slave woman was born according to the flesh" (Gal. 4:23)--the perfect with reference to an Old Testament event can mean it retains its exemplary effect.
3. "Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" 1 Cor. 9:1, Acts 22:15)--that Paul has seen the Lord is what establishes him permanently as an apostle.
1. "God spoke to Moses" (John 9:29)--the Pharisees hold that the Mosaic Law still and always holds.
2. "It is finished" (John 19:30)--the work of redemption culminating in the passion and death of Christ is complete and forever enduring .
3 "He rose on the third day" (1 Cor. 15:4)--unlike Lazarus who was raised from the dead but must die again, Christ rose to everlasting life.
4. "All things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1:16)--all creation continually exists, upheld by God (this is the teaching of God's universal providence and also the refutation of deism).
Here are examples, like kechari-tomene, of perfect participles in the New Testament:
1. "To the praise of his glorious grace, which he bestowed on us in his beloved"(Eph. 1:6)--Christ is perfectly, completely, endlessly loved by his Father.
2. "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Luke 1:42)--Christ is perfectly and endlessly blessed by God.
Because Luke 1:28 uses the perfect participle kecharitomene to describe Mary, CRI is wrong to say there is nothing in this verse to establish the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. One word of one Bible verse does not prove the doctrine, but kecharitomene proves the harmony of the doctrine with Scripture.
using the resources that Latin does have, Jerome expresses the root meaning of charitoo by the Latin noun gratis ("grace," "favor") and the amplitude and completeness of the Greek perfect tense by the Latin adjective plena ("full"). The Latin phrase does not well connote permanent condition, as the Greek perfect participle does.
Remember again, Mary is not by her own power, virtue, or merit sinless. It was not her merits but those of her Son which were applied to her
And it is so translatedMe in post 351
And yet the Greeks and the Greek Orthodox who do their readings in the original Greek believe in Mary being full of grace. Could they perhaps know better Greek than the chaps you mentioned?Topic: Translation from Greek (richer, complex language) to English.
Without the HOLY SPIRIT, you can know 10 languages and it won’t help anyone to KNOW HIS WORD. Keep doing things ‘your way’ will never get you to “HIS WAY”. Pride has no place in HIS KINGDOM.
But Cronos...even the Pope practices these things...bows to idols and kisses statues of mary etc. ...and so do the Priests and Bishops..all the way down the line. These are the leaders of the Vatican and various parishes. Therefore they “lead” the membership in not only allowing these practices but teaching them by their very behavior as an example to the people of which to follow.
1. This article you linked seems more to try to prove "Old Testament people were a type of the New Testament people of faith." -- which we all agree on -- it is not about the Ark being a type of Christ
2. Jesus was the Great High Priest offering up Himself as the perfect sacrifice for our sin debt. -- This is Church Teaching, yes. No indication for Rn's statement of the ark and Christ being the same (indicating a belief that Jesus was just some kind of "container" for God)
3. "The key to the... as a type of Christ" -- Now your point here says the Key to the Tabernacle was a type of Christ -- what happened to Rn's statement of the ark and Christ being the same (indicating a belief that Jesus was just some kind of "container" for God)?
3. Tent cover -- No indication for Rn's statement of the ark and Christ being the same (indicating a belief that Jesus was just some kind of "container" for God)
4. in the similar vein for the other poitns
11. The ARK OF THE COVENANT (Exodus 25:10-16) contained the Law, manna and Aaron's budded rod. Christ had the Law in His heart and came to fulfill it (Matt. 5:17, 18). It is another symbol of God being with His people. Just as the Ark of the Covenant contained God's testimony to Israel, Christ is God's testimony of man.
Here again the fallacious argument of reducing Christ to just a container -- Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law, He was not just some container. Jesus was / is God -- to believe that he was a type of Ark container is extremely wrong
ineptness abounds
John 4:46-54 Believing is Seeing PDF
1. We Christians here in Christ's Church, the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church believe that Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Our God saved Mary, His created being, His mother.you agree so far, correct?
2. We believe that Mary being a daughter of Adam and Eve would have been faithed to have the same "stain" from Original Sin. you believe in that "stain", too, correct?
3. Mary in the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55) when she is bearing Jesus Christ -- NOTE: Jesus has not been born yet, He has not yet (in our space-time) been the sacrifice on the Cross she says my spirit rejoices in God, my right NOW SaviourThis is based completely on what scripture has said -- a Mary bearing the unborn baby Jesus, bearing God, Jesus Christ, does not call Him her future savior, but calls Him her NOW AT THAT POINT IN TIME Savior, clearly indicating that Christ had already saved her even before His saving sacrifice on the Cross
4. Note: Mary does not say "my spirit rejoices in God, my future Saviour", but she says "in Deo salvatore meo,", "my current Saviour",
5. Mary clearly indicates that God (Jesus Christ) has already saved her. How is that possible if he has not yet been on the Cross or even been born yet?Do you agree with this so far? If not, then exsplain where you disagree with what I have said
6. This very clearly indicates that Mary needed a savior too and her Savior saved Her somehow even before He was born
Do you agree with this? Since Mary sings a praise of God who IS her savior (and Christ was still in her womb at that point in time, yet had already saved her)
7. The only conclusion is that somehow before His work on the Cross, Christ already saved his created being, His mother, mary.
Since God, our Lord Jesus Christ had already saved her, yet we know that the salvific sacrifice on the Cross had not yet occured, and we know that sinful man is born with the stain of sin, the only logical conclusion is that HE protected her from sin, He in fact "saved" His mother, His created being.
8. The logical conclusion is He protected her from sin and in fact "saved" her from sin even before He was born.
Saints of the OT had not yet been saved at that point in time when Mary was carrying Christ in the womb -- remember that there was the limbo of the Fathers and Christ opened the gates of heaven for the dead. "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." -- Abraham was happy to see Christ's day of sacrifice on the cross as the OT saints were saved at that point, yet Mary called Christ her Savior BEFORE that day, when He was still in her womb, He was already her Savior, He had ALREADY saved her.
This is quite different from the OT saints who were saved by the salvific act on the Cross -- they would call Him their future savior at the point that He was still in His mother's womb. Yet Mary called Him her current, RIGHT NOW, Savior
Cronos, The koine Greek and modern Greek are not the same.
“Yet, if you know your mother tongue, say English you will know what the words mean, far, far better than someone who does NOT know English and reads a book translated from the original English.”
An unwarranted assumption given the rather limited vocabulary of the average American.
However, Jesus had to exert His own free will, and to devote Himself continually to being obedient to the Father’s willSo do you believe in free will? Here's another article from your website that supports free will
C. S. Lewis said, “Our Lord . . . warned people to ‘count the cost’ before becoming Christians. Make no mistake,’ He says, ‘if you let me, I will make you perfect. The moment you put yourself in My hands, that is what you are in for. Nothing less, or other than that. You have free will, and if you choose, you may push Me away. But if you do not push Me away, understand that I am going to see this job through… I will never rest, nor let you rest, until you are literally perfect—until My Father can say without reservation that He is well pleased with Me’” (Mere Christianity, pp. 157-58).-- CS Lewis is good.
Chacun à son goût! ;-)
'Tis most certain and undeniable, that so far as the history of the primitive church is probably true, so far it is to be looked upon as probable; and so [far] as the state and general belief of those times, according to the exercise of reason, makes any other matters of fact relating to the apostles' times, or their doctrine, or anything else relating to the Christian religion [probable]; so far we are to look upon these or those things as more probable for it. So that we may be confirmed hereby, with a rational and right confirmation, with respect to the apostles' doctrines or facts; for this is but exercising our reason about the Scripture, and not the making another thing the standard of our faith. No man is to blame for making use of the fathers or primitive
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