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To: CynicalBear; blasater1960
the normal Christian reference to Jesus was somewhat troubling. That link cleared it up pretty well for me. I appreciate your input.

Are you saying you prefer the rabbinic Jewish explanation over and against the inspired NT interpretation given to us by the apostle John?

171 posted on 12/12/2010 7:57:47 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54; CynicalBear; blasater1960

Unbelievable.


172 posted on 12/12/2010 9:13:17 PM PST by streetpreacher (I'm not a preacher of anything; I'm just a recipient and unworthy steward of God's grace.)
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To: topcat54

>> Are you saying you prefer the rabbinic Jewish explanation over and against the inspired NT interpretation given to us by the apostle John?<<

Rather then use the term “rabbinic Jewish” why don’t you use the term “those who understand the Hebrew language better then we do”? I have found several instances where a clearer understanding of individual passages was gained from looking at word usage from a Hebrew perspective. While most of the translation was very accurate there are a few instances, while not changing the overall meaning, there have been clearer understanding and context given when word usage was understood.

One thing I may not have explained to you is that I originally believed much the same as you do. It was back in the early 70’s that I began to have questions and started to earnestly study. It has been a gratifying and enlightening journey.

I understand that you have your view but I would suggest that you spend some time researching the dispensational side. The internet makes it very easy these days. You may already have done what you believe is an adequate study and if that is the case I respect your right to have your view. I just believe that with careful, prayerful study asking God to give you His truth it will at least give you a better understanding of why we believe as we do. Don’t take someone else’s interpretation without questioning it as I know you will. Check their Biblical reference compared to the views of others then ask God to help you understand.


174 posted on 12/13/2010 5:53:16 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: topcat54
>> over and against the inspired NT interpretation given to us by the apostle John?<<

Keep in mind that John did not write in English. It had to be translated. I always use the example of the word “love”. In English we can love our children, love our wife, make love to our wife, love a good meal, or love the weather. Which type of love did Jesus ask Peter that he had for Him? In the original there is Agape, Eros, Philia, and Storge. All have simply been translated “love” in our English Bibles. You can see that a different meaning comes out when the original understanding of the word is used. When Jesus was asking Peter if he loved Him he used different words each time.

• Agápe means "love" (brotherly love) in modern day Greek, such as in the term s'agapo, which means "I love you". In Ancient Greek, it often refers to a general affection or deeper sense of "true love" rather than the attraction suggested by "eros". Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the "love chapter", 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial love. Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for a good meal, one's children, and the feelings for a spouse. It can be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard.

• Éros is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing. The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love;" however, eros does not have to be sexual in nature. Eros can be interpreted as a love for someone whom you love more than the philia, love of friendship. It can also apply to dating relationships as well as marriage. Plato refined his own definition: Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction." Plato also said eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth. Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth by eros. The most famous ancient work on the subject of eros is Plato's Symposium, which is a discussion among the students of Socrates on the nature of eros.

• Philia means friendship in modern Greek. It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle. It includes loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality and familiarity. In ancient texts, philos denoted a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.

• Storge means "affection" in ancient and modern Greek. It is natural affection, like that felt by parents for offspring. Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. It is also known to express mere acceptance or putting up with situations, as in "loving" the tyrant.

175 posted on 12/13/2010 6:12:00 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: topcat54
the inspired NT interpretation given to us by the apostle John?

John is not an inspired book.

John 1: 19 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders[c] in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.” 21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”24 Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

Jesus says John the baptist IS Elijah. John has JTB denying he is.

John has Jesus lying to the high priest.

John 18: 20 “I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.

Jesus most certainly did teach in secret and told those around NOT to tell anyone. He also taught in many places other than Synagogue or Temple.

It is not inspired.

209 posted on 12/13/2010 3:14:28 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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