Posted on 12/10/2010 9:41:02 AM PST by topcat54
“I won’t even address it.”
There’s a surprise. Just admit that you can’t.
Like tearing down Saint Paul’s Cathedral to erect Stonehenge.
Islam may have come after Christianity but it is so less civilized and so much more savage—heck,even more primitive and barbaric than the Druids of Stonehenge.
That's only a problem for dispensational literalists. I take the NT authors as divinely inspired in the interpretation of the OT prophecies.
“The bitterness you seem to have deep in your soul seems to scream from most of your posts. I have no way of knowing the source but peace and love certainly are not flowing from the words you type.”
Unfortunately, I discern the same element at work in your nice little “dearly beloved”isms.
Please don’t send me pings again. I’ll ask once then I will report.
Bogus claim? Hardly.
From Wiki:
(After Torah)Further books were translated over the next two centuries. It is not altogether clear which was translated when, or where; some may even have been translated twice, into different versions, and then revised.[9] The quality and style of the different translators also varied considerably from book to book, from the literal to paraphrasing to interpretative. According to one assessment "the Pentateuch is reasonably well translated, but the rest of the books, especially the poetical books, are often very poorly done and even contain sheer absurdities".[10]
Modern scholarship holds that the LXX was written during the 3rd through 1st centuries BCE. But nearly all attempts at dating specific books, with the exception of the Pentateuch (early- to mid-3rd century BCE), are tentative and without consensus.[4]
The oldest manuscripts of the LXX include 2nd century BCE fragments of Leviticus and Deuteronomy (Rahlfs nos. 801, 819, and 957), and 1st century BCE fragments of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and the Minor Prophets (Rahlfs nos. 802, 803, 805, 848, 942, and 943). Relatively complete manuscripts of the LXX postdate the Hexaplar rescension and include the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus of the 4th century and the Codex Alexandrinus of the 5th century.
The Prophets and Writings (Nevi'im and Ketuvi'im) were translated by anonymous authors at some later date. Over time the Septuagint became corrupt and Jews stopped using Greek translations. Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) wrote:
"We are forthwith to reject as spurious the copies in use in our Churches, and enjoin the brotherhood to put away the sacred books current among them, and to coax the Jews, and persuade them to give us copies which shall be untampered with, and free from forgery.".[18]
So, your contention that the pre-christian Septuagint validates your view is flawed. There are no pre-christian septuagints, only manuscripts from the Christian era. The Jews stopped using the LXX because it did not agree with the Hebrew texts. So either the Christian era versions were changed or the "original" pre-christian documents were flawed and not discovered as such by the Rabbi's until the 1st or 2nd century CE. So, since only existing manuscripts are of Christian origin, my claim stands.
John is not an inspired book.
John 1: 19 Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders[c] in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20 He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.” 21 They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.”24 Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25 questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
Jesus says John the baptist IS Elijah. John has JTB denying he is.
John has Jesus lying to the high priest.
John 18: 20 “I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.
Jesus most certainly did teach in secret and told those around NOT to tell anyone. He also taught in many places other than Synagogue or Temple.
It is not inspired.
LOL... the mod actually deleted post #207 which is Scripture. Guess that’s why he or she is the “Religious Moderator” and not the “Biblical Expositor”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUwO1i4ImPA
“I would push back and say that some of them are cowards. They don’t go far enough. Some of them are people pleasers and they’re worried about their ratings and approval as opposed to the truth.”
“The Bible has some very strong language. The opening of Galatians where he [Paul] tells a bunch of guys who are into circumcision to go all the way and emasculate themselves, probably not something that you’re going to have on the flannel-graph for the children in the Sunday school. Ezekiel telling the Israelites that they are whoring after certain people and gods because of the size of their genitalia and the experiences they enjoy is very strong language. When Isaiah says that a righteousness is like bloody tampons and Paul says it’s like a steaming pile that a dog leaves in the yard, the Bible is using some very strong language.
The question is, is that okay? Well, all Scripture is God-breathed, and if that’s how God speaks that’s how we should speak.”
...
“There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. some emergent types want to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelations, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity.”
Of course it is, along with the other 26 NT books. Basic Christian theology 101.
2. Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these:Of the Old Testament:
Genesis II Chronicles Daniel
Exodus Ezra Hosea
Leviticus Nehemiah Joel
Numbers Esther Amos
Deuteronomy Job Obadiah
Joshua Psalms Jonah
Judges Proverbs Micah
Ruth Ecclesiastes Nahum
I Samuel The Song of Songs Habakkuk
II Samuel Isaiah Zephaniah
I Kings Jeremiah Haggai
II Kings Lamentations Zechariah
I Chronicles Ezekiel MalachiOf the New Testament:
The Gospels Galatians The Epistle
according to Ephesians of James
Matthew Philippians The first and
Mark Colossians second Epistles
Luke Thessalonians I of Peter
John Thessalonians II The first, second,
The Acts of the to Timothy I and third Epistles
Apostles to Timothy II of John
Paul's Epistles to Titus The Epistle
to the Romans to Philemon of Jude
Corinthians I The Epistle to The Revelation
Corinthians II the Hebrews of JohnAll which are given by inspiration of God to be the rule of faith and life.
Jesus says John the baptist IS Elijah. John has JTB denying he is.
Oh, how silly. Other portions explain what going on. Hint: Jesus did not teach reincarnation.
Jesus most certainly did teach in secret and told those around NOT to tell anyone. He also taught in many places other than Synagogue or Temple.
Teaching in private and teaching in secret are two different things. Jesus often did the former, but none of his teaching were secret.
Jesus also speaks to you and your ilk:
And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.' "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. (Matt. 13)
You can obfuscate, but let's not forget the original bogus claim:
The Jewish Rabbi’s of the septuagint only translated the Torah. The 5 books of Moses. There rest of the Tanakh, or “OT” was done by Christian translators.
Are you ready to recant?
Romans 10
1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”[a] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”[b] (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g]
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”[i]
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”[j]
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
“I was found by those who did not seek me;
I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”[k]
21 But concerning Israel he says,
“All day long I have held out my hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”[l]
Footnotes:
Romans 10:5 Lev. 18:5
Romans 10:6 Deut. 30:12
Romans 10:7 Deut. 30:13
Romans 10:8 Deut. 30:14
Romans 10:11 Isaiah 28:16 (see Septuagint)
Romans 10:13 Joel 2:32
Romans 10:15 Isaiah 52:7
Romans 10:16 Isaiah 53:1
Romans 10:18 Psalm 19:4
Romans 10:19 Deut. 32:21
Romans 10:20 Isaiah 65:1
Romans 10:21 Isaiah 65:2
I didn’t see #202 BTW. Someone once shared on their profile a way of seeing deleted posts but I never tried it. Does anyone know how you do that?
Are you joking? You havent proved a thing. Christian translators DID make Origens copy and at least three other versions of LXX manuscripts. They may have got their earlier copies from that which was translated from 300 to 130 BCE but we have NO IDEA who translated those or what they said. We have anecdotal evidence evidence that the Torah was good and the rest was not that good. The LXX of today is from the Christian era by Christian writers.
No. None of the Greek Testament is inspired.
Oh, how silly. Other portions explain what going on. Hint: Jesus did not teach reincarnation.
Silly? That is a contradiction that can not be explained away. You can spin but it is just spin. Jesus said John the Baptist is Elijah. Elijah must come first. Malachi 4: 5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents;
Well he didnt restore children to parents Jesus even said:
Luke 12:53"They will be divided, (A)father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Teaching in private and teaching in secret are two different things. Jesus often did the former, but none of his teaching were secret.
Ridiculous! When you teach someone something and then tell them to keep it a secret....ITS A SECRET. They were told to tell no one! That is a secret.
Jesus also speaks to you and your ilk:
Uh Huh....Well, rahter than picking a scripture that is ad hominem, I prefer G-ds word that refutes your heresy:
Deut 4 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like man....
You insist on giving G-d a form.
Deut 4: 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you. Deut 12:31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods(Human sacrifice like Jesus). 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.
You do add and take away from the commands.
Isaiah 40:18To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? 46:5 “With whom will you compare me or count me equal? To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?
You try to make G-d equal and compare Him with a god-man Jesus. When G-d says...DONT compare me to ANYTHING.
Jesus fulfilled none of the Messianic prophecies that are exhaustive and exclusive. Hence the need for a second coming. No one can be crowned King Mashiach unless he has fulfilled ALL OF THE Prophecies. ALL. He will not be a god. He will not be a human sacrifice. He will not be a human vicarious atonement. He will live a normal human life.
I am not blind or deaf. Why the second coming? Because he FAILED.
Are you sure the correct word is 'parents'? Why use parents when the word used is 'fathers'?
You are right....I just happened to be using the new international version bible online. I checked the KJV, NASB and the Hebrew. It is Fathers. Thanks!
OF COURSE prophecy is chock full of allegory, of types, of shadows.
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