Posted on 12/06/2010 8:12:02 PM PST by Colofornian
I don't have a dog in this fight so am not passionate about it. Most of the bashing in my opinion is envy driven. Envy is an unhealthy form of destructive competition. It's the evil core of modern leftism and very unbecoming of conservatives. There are a lot of religious people at FR so competition is going to happen, but the Mormon bashing has gone over the line into envy and hate. The Mormons must be on to something and are now outcompeting other faiths that have moved to the left. All organizations tend to move left over time until they eventually go bankrupt. New organizations appear on the right.
Mormons are successful conservatives and Utah is the most reliable conservative Republican-voting state in the Union. FR is no place for Mormon Derangement Syndrome. That said, I don't want to see Mitt Romney win the Republican nomination. He wants it too bad. I suspect his motive is unbridled ambition.
Ignoring the sinister envy woven into this article, how does your church match up: Time.com: KINGDOM COME
I didn't say I didn't like the discussion. I enjoy nailing envy when I see it.
BB hhahahah. Envy, really? You are one silly dude. When you actually nail envy get back to me. You haven’t seen it on these posts.
As to your definition of "success"....not surprising that education and income are your bellwethers. Others may see success as something entirely different. The Online Dictionary says:
k-s
s
)
ut oh, I hope this post doesn’t cause chart envy.
I'm glad I found those charts...we're always hearing from mormons and mormon defenders how mormons are more conservative than Evangelical Christians.
Talking the talk isn't walking the walk!
They sure talk like they are conservative, yet they vote for liberal lds members. lds trumps all.
How do you know "Mormon religious beliefs can't be proven …" - you say elsewhere that you're not Mormon and have no dog in the the hunt (or whatever)?
How do you know "… the Mormon advantage is scientifically real" - you say elsewhere that you're not Mormon and have no dog in the the hunt (or whatever)?
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).
They are totally successful....money wise.
Do you indeed admire them?
Those poor, poor souls!
Bearly able to survive by whatever means for umpteen days...
What?
You say this does not SOUND exactly right?
You imply it's been REVISED or FRESTORED???
Well; just WHOSE 'history' book can you BELIEVE?
In October 1841, a Masonic Lodge was established in Nauvoo in the building currently referred to as the Cultural Hall. George Miller, one of the church's bishops, was made its "Worshipful Master" or leader. The lodge admitted far more members than was normal in Masonic practice and quickly elevated church leaders to high roles. This was the most significant time in which the Latter Day Saints were involved in Masonry.
Vigilante bands continued to roam the county, forcing Latter Day Saints in outlying areas to abandon their homes and gather to Nauvoo for protection.
When the Illinois state legislature met in December 1844, there was great support for the repeal of the Nauvoo Charter. Governor Ford conceded that the charter's privileges had been "much abused" by the Mormons, but he urged that the legislature merely amend the document, saying "I do not see how ten or twelve thousand people can do well in a city without some chartered privileges".[14] However, on January 29, 1845, the repeal was overwhelmingly passed by a vote of 25-14 in the Senate and 75-31 in the House.
After its legal disincorporation, Nauvoo government and civil institutions were legally dissolved and the church administrative structure operated as a default government. This more theocratic organization was known informally by its residents as the "City of Joseph" while disincorporated. After a succession crisis, Brigham Young gained support from the majority of church members and so controlled Nauvoo. Informal security procedures were established, including what were known as "whittling and whistling brigades." These were made up of Mormon men and boys who "whistled" while "whittling" with large knives held close to any suspicious strangers who entered Nauvoo. According to one witness:
Nauvoo's population peaked at about this time in 1845; it may have had as many as 12,000 inhabitants (and several nearly as large suburbs) — rivaling Chicago, whose 1845 population was about 15,000.
By the end of 1845 it became clear that no peace was possible between LDS church members and antagonized locals. Mormon leaders negotiated a truce so that the Latter Day Saints could prepare to abandon the city. The winter of 1845-46 saw the enormous preparations for the Mormon Exodus via the Mormon Trail. In early 1846, the majority of the Latter Day Saints left the city. After the departure of the Mormons, the temple stood until destroyed by arsonists on November 19, 1848.
Welcome to FreeRepublic!
That's an envious statement more typical of leftists. Mormons are successful on more metrics than that: high marriage rates, low divorce rates, number of children, low crime rates, convervative family values, education, low unemployment, stockpiling for emergencies, charity. They value success and unlike Jews do not appease enviers. If I could become religious, I'd consider becoming a Mormon because their values, politics, and dreams are close to mine.
Fact? Yes.
And I'm talking about LDS, Inc....Apparently you don't understand the difference....between the rank and file..and LDS, Inc.
fwiw-
It does resemble a franchise operation, invented by Roman Catholic, Inc., the richest church in the world and now the favorite religious target of leftist envy.
Small boys making noise placemaker.
2008 CNN Exit Polls have Mormons voting 78% McCain, 19% Obama, which includes all Mormons, not just weekly attending. Your chart has Mormons mixed in with Orthodox and other Christians, and Evangelicals broken out between weekly attending and not which averages out less than Mormons for McCain. Voting for McCain is hardly a test of conservative credentials.
Mormon's success is also high marriage rates, low divorce, many children, more education, less crime, more charity, less dual income latch key kids, and many other metrics. It's clear Mormons are very conservative politically and they shouldn't be attacked leftist style on a conservative political website.
The Book of Mormon narrative is unbelievable to many people including myself, but so is the narrative to other religions. It takes a gift of faith to believe in any of them.
FREE KITTENS
A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.
Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.
"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.
"Kittens," little Suzy said.
"How old are they?" asked Monson.
Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."
"And what kind of kittens are they?"
"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.
Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.
Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.
So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine and KSL.
Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.
"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."
"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."
Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."
Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.