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To: redgolum
Oh, you know these well, don't you red? :)

What is astonishing is that something like this has no impact on salvation (Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists and even Presbyterians believe that Christ's sacrifice was super-sufficient for our salvation). We can better argue over other things.
526 posted on 12/06/2010 7:00:06 AM PST by Cronos (Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis (And the word was made flesh, and dwelt amonst us))
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To: Cronos
Well, there have been Catholics on FR that said that Mary's intercession was needed for salvation. Most of them got banned over one thing or another.

At the very least, Mary was the most blessed woman who ever lived. She got to be the mother of Jesus, the Son of God. That we can all agree on.

The Immaculate Conception is a problem however. The Orthodox (who also don't have the doctrine of Original Sin) view the IC (for short, no disrespect) as another western innovation. The Early Church Father's don't really talk about her that much.

And some of the justifications for the IC are a bit gnostic IMO. Saying that Jesus could not have been surrounded by a sinful mother implies that He could also not have been really present on the earth. For whatever Mary was, the pagan Roman world made Vegas look like a Sunday School picnic.

There are much bigger things to debate, but this is something that is a real barrier between for instance the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics. Not to mention the Lutherans in most synods.

The perpetual virginity of Mary is a silly thing to fight over though. Most Lutheran synods have taught that she did not have any more kids, and that Jesus’s brothers were more likely half brothers from an earlier marriage of Joseph's. The angel told Joseph who his adoptive son really was, and who was the Father. It isn't that big of a stretch to see that he would not want to lay with her after that!

770 posted on 12/06/2010 6:39:51 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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