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To: Dr. Eckleburg

You know nothing of the Catholic faith and what it teaches.

I’ll look at just one of your so called Catholic beliefs.

“salvation by good works;”

No dear heart, salvation is by grace alone. Did you mean justification? Yes Catholics believe we are justified both by faith and by works of love (charity.) Both of which are given impetus by God’s grace. It is the way our will responds to the grace of God. We could not have faith or charity if we did not first receive His sanctifying grace. We do not have these because of our merits but because of His merits. But it has never been taught by the Church that good works save us. Justify us, yes. Save us no.

By the way, Alter Christie is not the same thing as “another Christ.”


2,522 posted on 12/11/2010 2:17:20 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance; metmom; RnMomof7; boatbums; Grizzled Bear; editor-surveyor; Alex Murphy; ...
You know nothing of the Catholic faith and what it teaches.

Not only is that mind-reading and against the rules of the FR RF, I and anyone on these threads can easily learn for themselves what the RCC teaches from the mouths of Roman Catholic apologists.

And sadly, those words often do not reflect Christ's teaching in the Scriptures.

No dear heart, salvation is by grace alone. Did you mean justification? Yes Catholics believe we are justified both by faith and by works of love

Let's drop the smarmy sarcasm, shall we?

RCs say "salvation is by grace alone" and then in the very same sentence go on to say men are "justified (saved; made right before God) by faith and by (their own) works of love."

Can you not see the contradiction?

Either men are saved by GRACE ALONE or men are saved by grace AND by their own good works of charity.

Rome believes the latter, to its shame.

Alter Christie is not the same thing as “another Christ.”

Tell that to your priestcraft...

THE AMAZING GIFT OF THE PRIESTHOOD
by Father Kenneth Baker

"Simply stated, the Catholic priest is another Christ. Through his ordination he has been granted the amazing gift of being a channel of divine grace for the eternal salvation of those he come into contact with — both in his official ministry and in his personal life..."

"a divine channel for salvation???"

Faith in Christ is the "divine channel" by which men are saved individually according to God's grace through the work of the Holy Spirit within them. One on one. No interlopers required.

Magick and alchemy are not a solid basis on which to peg your salvation. Read the Bible and know for certain that there is "only one God and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus."

And He is enough. Thank God.

2,533 posted on 12/11/2010 2:46:28 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: lastchance; Dr. Eckleburg
No dear heart, salvation is by grace alone.

Tell me what happens to a Catholic who skips mass for no good reason and dies without going to confession.

2,555 posted on 12/11/2010 4:31:50 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: lastchance; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; ...
No dear heart, salvation is by grace alone. Did you mean justification? Yes Catholics believe we are justified both by faith and by works of love (charity.) Both of which are given impetus by God’s grace. It is the way our will responds to the grace of God. We could not have faith or charity if we did not first receive His sanctifying grace. We do not have these because of our merits but because of His merits. But it has never been taught by the Church that good works save us. Justify us, yes. Save us no.

We are not justified by works either.

Galatians 3:1-14 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

2,561 posted on 12/11/2010 5:18:11 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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