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To: Dr. Eckleburg
A friend told me that if Roman Catholics understood what the office of "mediator" really is, they would understand better how wrong it is to say Mary or any saint is a "mediator between God and men."

A friend told me that if Protestants understood Catholics, instead of their hostile caricature of it, they would understand that neither Mary nor any other saint "mediates between God and men" in addition to or apart from Christ, but always, only, and strictly between men and the God-man, Christ Jesus Our Lord.

They would further understand that objections to that apply equally well to any other intercessory prayer by Christians on behalf of each other, because all of it is mediation between the Christian being prayed for and the Redeemer.

74 posted on 12/04/2010 9:36:52 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion; metmom; TSgt; RnMomof7; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; the_conscience; ...
A friend told me that if Protestants understood Catholics, instead of their hostile caricature of it, they would understand that neither Mary nor any other saint "mediates between God and men" in addition to or apart from Christ, but always, only, and strictly between men and the God-man, Christ Jesus Our Lord.

Your catechism betrays your opinion.

968 - Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."509

969 - "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

Blasphemy. Flee from it. There is only "one God and one mediator, the man, Christ Jesus."

Here is a very good link regarding Mary and "intercessionary" prayer...

MARY

And this excellent page on...

DEAD SAINTS

Dr. Joe Mizzi pointed out the flaw in this line of reasoning:

We note that praying to the saints is not equivalent to asking fellow Christians for prayer. This excuse may be convincing to some Christians who never had any personal experience of the Catholic religion. Otherwise, every Catholic (and former Catholic) knows that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different than asking a fellow believer for prayer.

Suppose a Christian brother comes and kneels before you, imploring you with great devotion to pray for him. Would you allow him? How would you react if he calls you his advocate, his hope and refuge? What if he thanks you for the many graces you conferred on him and for delivering him from hell? Suppose he tells you that he confines his salvation to your care and pleads with you to stay with him until you see him safe in heaven? Would you call that "asking a fellow Christian for prayer"? Of course not! That kind of prayer and confidence is nothing less than divine worship and it should be directed only to the Lord Jesus Christ. And yet that is exactly the kind of prayer that Catholics offer to Mary and the saints.

We should underline the fact that death disrupts the interaction between saints on earth and saints in heaven. As Christians we also believe in the communion of the saints - whether we are on earth or in heaven... However that does not imply that death does nothing to the interaction between us! We all know something of the painful and terrible reality of death separating us from our loved ones... there is no communication between the departed and us. That's why the Bible forbids us from trying to communicate with the dead. Dead saints remain part of the body of Christ, but there is an effective separation from the living saints... We must face the sad consequence of death: separation! [168]

Believers don't need to make contact with spirits of the dead to seek their intercession with God Almighty. As children of God, members of His family, we have the right to go boldly before the Throne of Grace with our petitions. We can appeal to our heavenly Father directly. [169]

The Bible makes it clear that we do not need dead saints to intercede on our behalf. We can go boldly before the throne of grace because Jesus is our mediator.

"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Hebrews 4:14-16)

Also pertinent to this discussion is the immutable fact that God has forbidden communication with the dead at:

* Leviticus 19:31
* Leviticus 20:6
* Deuteronomy 18:9
* 1 Chronicles 10:13.

Loraine Boettner insightfully asked:

How, then, can a human being such as Mary hear the prayers of millions of Roman Catholics, in many different countries, praying in many different languages, all at the same time?

Let any priest or layman try to converse with only three people at the same time and see how impossible that is for a human being... The objections against prayers to Mary apply equally against prayers to the saints. For they too are only creatures, infinitely less than God, able to be at only one place at a time and to do only one thing at a time.

How, then, can they listen to and answer thousands upon thousands of petitions made simultaneously in many different lands and in many different languages? Many such petitions are expressed, not orally, but only mentally, silently. How can Mary and the saints, without being like God, be present everywhere and know the secrets of all hearts? [170]

Praying to Mary or any other dead saint is a foolish and blasphemous practice that is against both common sense and Biblical commandments.


85 posted on 12/04/2010 10:50:29 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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