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To: Buggman
I see. Where on earth did you get the idea that Peter withdrawing from table-fellowship with the Gentiles in Galatians had anything to do with the "Mosaic dietary laws"?

There is no way that Peter, Barnabas, and Paul could have kept kosher while eating meals cooked by the Gentiles. Peter was inspired by divine revelation to brake kosher laws at the household of Cornelius.

As for Paul, if he himself wasn't keeping the Torah, then he was a liar and a purjurer when he claimed under oath before the Sanhedrin to still be a Pharisee (Acts 23:6)--read that, "Orthodox Jew." Why on earth do you pay attention to the writings of such a liar?

Not all Jews were Pharisees but Paul had been trained as one, as had his father. Paul was certainly a Jew and considered himself an orthodox follower of the Jewish Messiah.

You and I agree that one who tells a Gentile that he must become a Jew in order to be saved is preaching another "gospel" and is anathema. What you fail to comprehend is that telling a Jew that they must become a Gentile in order to be saved is worse.

The rules against Jewish converts maintaining Mosaic customs did not come until many centuries later. Therefore, they have no bearing on whether the Early Church founded by Jews could have "replaced" the Jews. The latter-day rules against Mosaic customs were established to guard against those who used baptism as a veneer, but did not really become followers of Jesus. Don't blame me for the hard sayings and teachings of Christianity. Jesus Himself had the most hard sayings of anybody. I am only trying to follow God's will.

110 posted on 12/02/2010 2:04:25 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor
There is no way that Peter, Barnabas, and Paul could have kept kosher while eating meals cooked by the Gentiles.

Really? Where is that in the Torah? Book, chapter, and verse please.

Not all Jews were Pharisees but Paul had been trained as one, as had his father.

So? If a person who had a Calvinist father and had been trained in a Calvinist seminary went around preaching Arminianism, would you let him get away with continuing to call himsef a Calvinist? In a court of law, no less?

Paul was certainly a Jew . . .

That's not the issue. Was he or was he not still of the sect of the Pharisees, which meant keeping their traditions and falling within the parameters of their theology?

The rules against Jewish converts maintaining Mosaic customs did not come until many centuries later.

I agree. So why then did you ascribe them to the Apostles by claiming that they considered keeping kosher contrary to the Gospel?

The latter-day rules against Mosaic customs were established to guard against those who used baptism as a veneer, but did not really become followers of Jesus.

So, like I said, the Gentile adoptees came in and started beating up on those born in the house, saying they weren't "true" brothers unless they stopped living as Jews and started living as Gentiles. How is that different from the Judaizers putting rules into place making Gentile converts live as Jews "to guard against those who used baptism as a veneer, but did not really become followers of Jesus"?

You realize that you're agreeing with me, but just trying to put a positive spin on the sin of preaching another Gospel ("Jesus alone isn't enough for the salvation of Jews! You must also live as Gentiles to prove that you're saved!") right?

Don't blame me for the hard sayings and teachings of Christianity.

I'm not. I'm blaming you for distorting them.

Really, I'm not even blaming you. You're the product of the general ignorance of Judaism, first century or otherwise, in Christianity. However, since you like to go around proclaiming heresy, and since a person is judged acording to their own yardstick, I'm rightly giving you a hard time.

Jesus Himself had the most hard sayings of anybody.

Absolutely true. Here's one for you:

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law (read that "Torah") or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Mat. 5:17-19)
Tell me, are you so careless of your place in the Kingdom that you are going to go around teaching others to annul (cease to follow) the least commandment of the Torah?

I'm not.

113 posted on 12/02/2010 2:36:15 PM PST by Buggman (returnofbenjamin.wordpress.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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