[Salvation]

The end of November is fast approaching and I wanted to get this posted.

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[narses]

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[Salvation]

Why I Am Catholic: For Purgatory, Thank Heavens (Ecumenical)
(Why Am I Catholic?) For Peace While Suffering (A Few Words for Wednesday)
(why am I Catholic?) Because I Awoke from a Long, Bad Dream
Why I Am Catholic: For All the Saints: Bernard of Clairvaux

[txzman]

Purgatory - One of the many, many reasons I could no longer remain a Catholic. As you said, it - and a thousand other Catholic teachings - are not in the Bible nor in any of it’s early history.

And I grew up as an altar boy learning the Mass in Latin. But after 20 years of learning, left for a Bible based church. And I won’t even get started on the history of the Catholic Church...

[surroundedbyblue]

My 3 year old & I remember all the poor souls of purgatory in our nightly prayers. Clearly, I should be doing more for them. Thank you for this.

[Alex Murphy]

Few, indeed, quit this life in a state of purity and grace which warrants their immediate entrance into Heaven. Still fewer, let us hope, are those to whom the blessed refuge of Purgatory,— that half-way house of our dead,— is closed. I cannot conceive how Protestants can believe as they do on this point, nor is it astonishing that their rejection of Purgatory has been followed, in the case of many, by the elimination of a belief in Hell; for the latter doctrine, taken alone, is monstrous. In fact, all Catholic doctrines are interdependent; they stand or fall together. You cannot pick stones out of the arch, and expect it to stand, for it will not do so. Purgatory is one of the most humane and beautiful conceptions imaginable. How many mothers' aching hearts has it not soothed and comforted with hope for some dead, wayward son!

For some people, Jesus just didn't suffer enough on the cross. You can't make everybody happy, I guess.

[plain talk]

Jesus statement to the thief was that he would be in paradise that day. Ill take jesus word over some theory made up by men regarding purgatory. Sorry.

[sigzero]

“it isn’t mentioned specifically in the Bible”

It isn’t mentioned at all. You could have stopped right there.

[bibletruth]

But where did all the people who died go, for example from the Old Testament times? Assuming that all the people who had died before the Incarnation were just, ahem—out of luck

In all due respect, it is clearly evident from the Bible that all the Old Testament people who died went to Sheol.

A synonym of Sheol is "bor" (pit), "abaddon" and "shaḥat" (pit or destruction), and perhaps also of "tehom" (abyss).

There is ample Bible evidence for Sheol and where the Old Testament people who died went:

Jacob, refusing to be comforted at the supposed death of Joseph, exclaims: "I shall go down to my son a mourner unto Sheol" (Gen. xxxvii. 36)

Sheol is underneath the earth (Isa. vii. 11, lvii. 9; Ezek. xxxi. 14; Ps. lxxxvi. 13

Sheol is very deep (Prov. ix. 18; Isa. lvii. 9); and it marks the point at the greatest possible distance from heaven (Job xi. 8; Amos ix. 2; Ps. cxxxix. 8). The dead descend or are made to go down into it; the revived ascend or are brought and lifted up from it (I Sam. ii. 6; Job vii. 9; Ps. xxx. 4; Isa. xiv. 11, 15).

Sometimes the living are hurled into Sheol before they would naturally have been claimed by it (Prov. i. 12; Num. xvi. 33; Ps. lv. 16, lxiii. 10), in which cases the earth is described as "opening her mouth" (Num. xvi. 30).

Sheol is spoken of as a land (Job x. 21, 22); but ordinarily it is a place with gates (ib. xvii. 16, xxxviii. 17; Isa. xxxviii. 10; Ps. ix. 14), and seems to have been viewed as divided into compartments (Prov. vii. 27).

This realm of the dead (Sheol) is in the earth (comp. Job, x. 21, 22), the gateway being in the west [notice it has direction]. It is the "land without return." It is a dark place filled with dust (not fire); but it contains a palace for the divine ruler of this shadow-realm (comp. Job xviii. 13, 14). Seven gates guard successively the approach to this land, at the first of which is a watchman. A stream of water flows through Sheol (comp. Enoch, xvii. 6, xxii. 9; Luke xvi. 24; Ps. xviii. 5; II Sam. xxii. 5). Maybe you can inquire from a Jewish Rabbi as to where Sheol is located and where its environment is like (i.e., no fire, but dust, dark, beneath the earth, etc).

[IrishCatholic]

Why do you bother? Stick with the caucus threads. If Christ himself returned and declared the Catholic Church his one true Church, there are bigots here who would nail him back on the cross in their hatred of all things Catholic.

I understand you wanting to minister to those lost to Christ, but how many times do you turn your cheek to have the same people strike you on the other? If someone wants to learn they will read and ask questions on the caucus threads. Those that hate will only couch their bigotry just enough to avoid getting zotted.

[Slyfox]

Purgatory is the manifestation of a merciful God.

[boatbums]

The lack of this idea in Protestantism leads, I think, to an objectionable feature in their system,—namely, the altogether improbable and presumptuous supposition that the soul of some monster of depravity can straightway enter the society of heaven, provided only that he says, at the last moment of his ill-spent life, that he repents and believes in Jesus as the Son of God.

The Reformation happened because the Roman Catholic Church had gone off track of the truth for many, many years. One major one had to do with the selling of indulgences exactly for the supposed purpose of freeing souls from purgatory. However, the biggest derailment came from the Church's opposition to the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith alone. The statement above, taken from the OP, is a good example of the misrepresentation of Reformed thought - the "Protestant" label used as a derogatory.

I think the real problem lies in the last sentence where the fear that some monster of depravity can live his whole life in depravity and by a simple utterance of a phrase at death he somehow merits heaven. The mistakes are plenty in that thinking. They are:

1. That God's grace is somehow not totally sufficient to cover all our sins by the blood of Jesus Christ.

2. That the soul made clean by the sacrifice of Christ is still in need of further cleansing.

3. That the soul needs to suffer the "temporal" punishments for sins that are not "fully" penanced - whatever that means.

4. That the amazing love and grace of Almighty God is incapable of forgiving a soul who in their final moments genuinely and completely repents of their wrongs and throws themselves upon the mercy of God.

It is readily admitted that Jesus did that for the thief at his side, yet somehow, it is unthinkable that God's love, mercy and grace could still reach a person today. It is flat out wrong to claim "Protestants" think grace is cheap because we KNOW it cost more than we could ever imagine and do not "frustrate the grace of God". We are bought with a price that is more precious than anything in the world and whenever one comes to this understanding - REGARDLESS of what their life was before - God will and does forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness. That is why it is called Amazing Grace.

[dartuser]

When I was straddling the fence on whether or not I should become a Catholic, I never had a problem with Purgatory. It just makes the most sense to me.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.

[Kolokotronis]

From the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America:

“The Orthodox Church does not believe in purgatory (a place of purging), that is, the inter-mediate state after death in which the souls of the saved (those who have not received temporal punishment for their sins) are purified of all taint preparatory to entering into Heaven, where every soul is perfect and fit to see God. Also, the Orthodox Church does not believe in indulgences as remissions from purgatoral punishment. Both purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church, and when they were enforced and applied they brought about evil practices at the expense of the prevailing Truths of the Church. If Almighty God in His merciful loving-kindness changes the dreadful situation of the sinner, it is unknown to the Church of Christ. The Church lived for fifteen hundred years without such a theory.”

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076

[Melian]

This passage from Scripture proves to me that salvation is not by faith alone but requires works, and, therefore, proves that there must be a Purgatory:

“And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.” (1 John 2: 3–6).

If you read on to verse 11, it becomes plain that more is required of believers than simple belief. Actions must follow belief.

Now what happens to all those who believe but whose actions are lacking? They do believe, so they shouldn’t go to Hell; but they are seriously tainted by sin so they can’t go to Heaven. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. It stands to reason that a merciful Father allows a place of purification so one can become clean and worthy to enter into Heaven.

Purgatory is an affirmation of God’s love and mercy for his children.