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To: mas cerveza por favor; presently no screen name; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; ...
pnsn:Is she sinless or not? They are saying she is sinless, anyone sinless doesn’t need a Savior but MARY knew she needed a Savior.

mcpf: Take back your lie that the Church teaches Mary did not need the Savior to protect her from sin.

pnsn didn't say that she needed a savior to PROTECT her from sin.

Jesus doesn't *protect* us from sin, or anyone for that matter.

Jesus died to save us from the penalty of sin. For a church that teaches free will, I find that odd that they would look at it in that light.

Mary had free will to choose to sin or not, just like every other human being on this planet. Obviously SHE saw her need for a Savior. People who don't sin don't need one.

What Scripture in the Bible that the Catholic church takes responsibility for states that Mary was without sin? That she never sinned?

The only requirement for her in connection to Jesus was that she be a virgin through to His birth.

Everything else is irrelevant.

She didn't need to be always a virgin. She didn't need to be sinless.

I'll bet that her feet even touched the ground, unlike what I was told while in the Catholic church, that people so revered her that she never had to do anything and never had to walk anywhere, so her feet never touched the ground.

2,574 posted on 11/18/2010 11:35:44 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

There has only been one sinless individual and that was Christ Himself...otherwise if Mary was truly sinless, as the catholic teachings attest to...then there would be no need for Jesus. She then would have gone to the cross and carried the sin of the world on her shoulders. But of course that did not happen for Mary was not sinless...the fact she died as all do testifies to this..”When sin is finished it brings forth death.” Mary died .. and she wasn’t crucified for anyones sin.


2,575 posted on 11/18/2010 11:46:38 AM PST by caww
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To: metmom; presently no screen name; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee
Obviously SHE saw her need for a Savior

Mary testified that her spirit had rejoiced in her Savior before Christ was even born. Nobody else fits in that category.

What Scripture in the Bible that the Catholic church takes responsibility for states that Mary was without sin? That she never sinned?

This tradition was passed down from the Apostles who personally knew Mary. All Christians held this tradition until a few centuries ago. When did Protestants come to reject this universal Christian belief? It must have been after the time of Martin Luther:

Luther's Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527 It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin"

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm

2,576 posted on 11/18/2010 12:43:29 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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