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To: mas cerveza por favor
Right. This is what the Church teaches ...

I posted what New Advent tells us of the Atonement and what the Catholic Church teaches. It teaches that:

This is simply not what the scriptures tells us. The Atonement isn't a "type" or "figure". It is an actual atonement of our Lord's perfect blood being spilled on our sinful behalf to pay for our penalty of sin. This is what the early western fathers taught.

Why this is important is that you will find this new Catholic view of the Atonement to be more in line with the Orthodox view. The Roman Catholic Church changed centuries of teaching by the western fathers to align their views of the atonement to the eastern church view.

Before the split, all Eastern councils rejected by the Pope were considered invalid by the Eastern Christians.

That doesn't change the fact that Orthodox do not look upon the Pope as "infallible". They believe in a conclave of several leaders of the Church arriving at consensus. They consider the Pope to be one leader of many. Now either the Orthodox view is wrong or the Catholic doctrine that says the Pope is infallible is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

Protestants tried to hijack the good name of Augustine but that does not mean he approved to them. They were highly selective of Augustine's writings.

Read through "A Treatise of Predestination of the Saints" and tell me if you agree with Augustine's conclusions. I do.

You misquote me. Of course the Church teaches homosexuality is a sin

Then why does the Church allow homosexual priests to stay in the clergy?

2,330 posted on 11/17/2010 2:07:05 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
"Right. This is what the Church teaches ..."

Maybe, just maybe you ought quote the entire reference instead of an out of context sentence from the last paragraph. Better yet, why don't you check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church to see what the Church ACTUALLY teaches.

1992 - Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men.

Editorial by omission is just as intellectually dishonest as outright lying.

2,331 posted on 11/17/2010 3:30:39 AM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: HarleyD
"Then why does the Church allow homosexual priests to stay in the clergy?"

If sinlessness were a requirement for the priesthood would any human qualify? What dark sins do you harbor that would prohibit you?

2,332 posted on 11/17/2010 3:34:11 AM PST by Natural Law (lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi)
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To: HarleyD
article quote: "the one supreme sacrifice of which the rest were but types and figures."

The Atonement isn't a "type" or "figure".

You got that wrong. Reread the article you quote. It says that "the rest" (previous animal sacrifices) were but types and figures of the true Sacrifice and Atonement of Christ.

It is an actual atonement of our Lord's perfect blood being spilled on our sinful behalf to pay for our penalty of sin. This is what the early western fathers taught.

This what the Church teaches. However, she also teaches that the atonement was paid to God, not to Satan, as some of the Fathers speculated.

They consider the Pope to be one leader of many. Now either the Orthodox view is wrong or the Catholic doctrine that says the Pope is infallible is wrong. You can't have it both ways.

You realize there is a schism between much of the East and Rome. Before the split, the majority Eastern view was correct. After the split, they wrongly rejected the primacy of Peter for political reasons. Many Eastern Orthodox wish to see and end to the schism. However, partisans of the schism falsely pretend to have maintained continuity with the beliefs before the split. These Eastern Orthodox say the Pope is "first among equals," whatever that means.

Read through "A Treatise of Predestination of the Saints" and tell me if you agree with Augustine's conclusions. I do.

Have you read St. Augustine's magnum opus City of God? Do you agree with that?

why does the Church allow homosexual priests to stay in the clergy?

According to Congressional testimony, the US Communist Party infiltrated American Catholic seminaries with thousands of sleeper agents who were trained to pretend orthodoxy until they reached high rank. Many of these sleepers wormed their way into controlling positions at the seminaries and proceeded to screen out non-homosexuals. The same thing was done throughout the Western World. Protestant denominations were also likely affected. As a result, mainline Protestant denominations have overturned their doctrines on homosexuality but the Catholic Church, miraculously, has not. Presently, the communist-homosexual cabal still has too much raw power to prevent its mass expulsion. They will likely remain in place until the Holy Inquisition is restored to root them out.

2,367 posted on 11/17/2010 8:20:26 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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