In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[metmom]

Soul annihilation is in direct contradiction to not only the clear teaching of Jesus, the clear teaching of the Bible that the Catholic church claims it wrote, but also the clear teaching of the RC church in the Catechism of the Catholic church, as found at vatican.va.

Since you have previously stated that you believe in it anyway, you have disqualified yourself from having any authority to speak on the subject of life and death in the world to come.

What kind of sin is it to reject the doctrines of the Catholic church? Mortal or venial? How long a stay in purgatory do you expect for it?

[bkaycee]

Yes, the catechism has no life in it. It is a dead document and provided me with no answers when I was searching.

Salvation is not by communion or baptism or church membership.

Why does Rome lift herself up? "Come home to the church." Why? The church saves no one. The church is the RECIPIENT of salvation, not the avenue of salvation.

[kosta50]

John 4:24...John 6:63...Acts 17:24...Matt 26:28;

As metmom would say (if someone other than a protester does it) "snippet city"! :)

Or more commonly known as cherry picking...

[OLD REGGIE]

Luke was a Jew.

I had always thought that Luke was a Greek physician who lived in Antioch before he fell in with this new bunch who called themselves Christian.

You are correct in that the "Greek Physician" identification of Luke is the prevailing view.

I have read various and conflicting accounts of Luke's identification and, frankly, it seems there is no solid answer.

I will not argue with your understanding except to note none of us really knows.

I hereby retract my claim. :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

Luke was a Jew.

Where are you getting that from?

I have since retracted that statement and admitted no one knows.

I have read various articles which differ so much you can get dizzy chasing your tail.

[Natural Law]

"Since you have previously stated that you believe in it anyway, you have disqualified yourself from having any authority to speak on the subject of life and death in the world to come"

“Soul Annihilation” is a cute buzz word used without thought or meaning to overly simplify and dismiss a complex theological concept and I reject it. Immortality and Immortal Souls are equally overly simplified. Our souls did not exist before the bodies were formed and its continued existence, Eternal life, is offered to us conditionally. Annihilation, like creation, is a power reserved to God alone, and by an exercise of His absolute power He can reduce the soul to nothingness. The wages of sin are indeed death.

That you continue the charade of speaking for the Church and Catholics by snippets and excerpts from the Baltimore Catechism and "snippets" from anti-Catholic sermons from equally ignorant sources is at best pathetic.

In paragraph 1861 the 'Catechism of the Catholic Church describes hell as 'eternal death'. It further states in paragraph 1035 that 'the chief punishment of hell is that of eternal separation from God'.

The Church, as defined by St Thomas Aquinas, teaches that 'eternity’ is the full, perfect and simultaneous possession of unending life' (Summa Theologica I, question 10). A complete and permanent separation from God is the antithesis of eternity and everlasting life, in other words, death.

In the Collect (opening prayer) for the eighth Sunday after Pentecost in the Tridentine missal, we find the words 'qui sine te esse non possumus', meaning 'we who without Thee cannot be (or exist)'. The logical combination of these two citations together at least suggests annihilationism. Although not explicitly approved in Catholic teaching it is not specifically dismissed.

[metmom]

And Catholics are masters at it.

Witness the verses cherry picked to support the papacy, the heresies about Mary, and the eucharist.

And if there’s none to cherry pick, they just make up stuff and slap the label of *tradition* on it.

[Judith Anne]

John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Acts 17:24 - Not in a Monstrance or Roman tabernacle "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;

Oh, okay. So, are you saying Christ Jesus was not God INCARNATE?

[presently no screen name]

But it’s wrong to think He was being symbolic, when He specifically said, “My flesh is real meat, and My blood is true drink.”

And what is Jesus saying by REAL meat?

Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God.'" We feed on His Word.

Prov 3:8 "This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones". His Words.

Prov 4:20 My son, pay attention to what I say; listen closely to My Words.

Pr0v 4:21 Do not let them out of your sight, keep them within your heart;

Prov 4:22 "for they (His Words) are life to those who find them and health to a man's whole body". Jesus is The Word and bring health to the body ("a man does not live by bread alone.....")

Do this in remembrance of Me. He is The Word, eat on His Word daily, take IT into your heart for It is health for your body.

And remember we, also, know that He is speaking about His body, His church. His body/His Church feeds on His Word/Him alone. “Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.” (1 Corinthians 12:27;

Followers left Him at that point, driven away by the forbidden cannibalistic implications. He did not call them back and say, “Hey, I was only kidding, it was symbolic.”

Those that left Jesus understood what Jesus said as the RCC does - worldly thinking because they knew Him NOT. Jesus was talking of the supernatural and they didn't see Him as that because their thinking was on their logic/natural - what they considered REAL MEAT was - for they knew HIM not for He is The Supernatural Word. Eat the Word for He is The Word.

Jesus was talking about HIMSELF - He is The Supernatural Word - and they looked at Jesus as a man and we are to eat His flesh. They had no idea who He was. As we know, His Word is spiritually discerned and those that left didn't 'get it' because...

1 Cor 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 14:16 "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever--

John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it (the world) neither sees him nor knows Him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you".

John 7:39 "By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified".

Those that left had NO IDEA who Jesus was with their worldly thinking - that eating His body as literal flesh and blood. Jesus knew who He was - so who was wrong here? Should Jesus has said, I'm wrong - I didn't mean it that way? NO!! Those that left had to CHANGE their thinking and that can only be done by spiritual discernment - it was them that needed to change. Jesus is The Word and we do not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD - in HIS KINGDOM - that John the Baptist cleared The Way for it to enter - it is not a worldly kingdom.

And this brings into how Jesus describes who His mother is - in HIS kingdom - His mother and brothers and sisters are those who HEAR and OBEY. And who are those that insist who His mother is? Those with worldly thinking - and it has nothing to do with HIS KINGDOM. Two different kingdoms and His Kingdom is Spiritually discerned. Natural man/thinking are the 'religious minded' and are lost for they KNOW HIM NOT. Like those that left Him because they knew Him not with their 'worldly' thinking about eating His flesh and blood which is cannibalism.

Do this in remembrance of Me....Who is He? He is The Word and His Word is Holy Spirit inspired; thus, spiritually discerned. His Kingdom.

And the traditions of man nullifies God's Word/His Kingdom. Two different kingdoms.

Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify (cancel) the Word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

[Judith Anne]

That is the most confused, non-sensical post I have ever read.

Those that left Jesus understood what Jesus said as the RCC does - worldly thinking because they knew Him NOT. Jesus was talking of the supernatural and they didn't see Him as that because their thinking was on their logic/natural - what they considered REAL MEAT was - for they knew HIM not for He is The Supernatural Word. Eat the Word for He is The Word.

In spite of the fact that the "RCC" considers the Eucharist to be Christ's Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, you say that?

Apparently, your understanding of the "RCC" is faulty.

[bkaycee]

Oh, okay. So, are you saying Christ Jesus was not God INCARNATE?

Not sure where that question comes from, but no, Jesus is surely God incarnate.

I am just saying, as the scripture does, that God does not reside in man made objects, temples, monstrances, tabernacles, bread.

[D-fendr]

But here you are expounding your own new tradition contrary to the Apostles and the Church for two thousand years.

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”

[Judith Anne]

From your post 6168.

[presently no screen name]

So, the choice is the Catholics.

Exactly! Like those who left Jesus who understood Jesus's Words as cannibalism - literally eating His flesh and blood.

This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." Jesus is The Word, The Bread of Life.

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The Words I have spoken to you are Spirit and they are LIFE". I am The Way, The Truth, The LIFE.

"Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray HIM". For they knew Him NOT.

"From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him". Couldn't accept Him because of their worldly thinking. The natural man cannot accept....

"Then Jesus turned to the Twelve and asked, "Are you also going to leave?"

Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of ETERNAL life".

Amen! Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The LIFE!. Jesus is The Word - the Spiritual - His Word is Holy Spirit inspired and spiritually discerned.

Worldly kingdom/man's thinking vs. HIS KINGDOM/Spiritual.

[MarkBsnr]

My only point being that if our understanding of God has undergone revision...

That does not agree with the patristic saying that faith is once delivered and believed everywhere and always.

There is a difference between understanding and faith. One does not necessarily negate, reduce or expand the other.

that does not necessarily invalidate that understanding

It doesn't validate it either. Christianity went from being a Jewish sectarian religion to being an amalgam of a specific flavor of Judaism, Greek Pagan philosophy (Plaotnism, Stoicism, etc.), and Persian (Zoroastrian) dualism. We can say that Christianity gradually (and consensually) evolved, especially in the West, without necessairly being either valid or invalid.

If the argument is that greater understanding lessens the validity of the faith, then I would differ with that. I think that the odds are that greater understanding can lead to greater faith, but not in all instances.

It is possible that we simply understand God better (not completely, of course not, but better than the fishermen and salesmen 2000 years ago).

It's possible, but doesn't seem probable.

Does the Nicene Council give evidence of greater understanding than Irenaeus, for instance? Do the Ecumenical Councils throughout the first millennium give ever increasing understanding? I submit that they do.

As for human understanding of God, how can finite even begin to encompass the infinite? Why, if God is infinite, then the combined understanding of all humanity that ever lived, lives and will live amounts to nothing compared to what God truly is.

The mathematical opposite of infinity is 1/x as x goes to infinity. However, since we have had revelation of God, we are not at the opposite of infinity. If we can increase our understanding, then it is not for naught - it is something.

[Judith Anne]

Amen! Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The LIFE!. Jesus is The Word - the Spiritual - His Word is Holy Spirit inspired and spiritually discerned.

Was Christ Jesus NOT God INCARNATE? He was far more than spirit, He was God in the flesh. Remember the nail holes? Remember that Thomas felt those wounds in Christ's FLESH with his own flesh and blood hands?

[MarkBsnr]

I’ve read the Catechism and I’ve spurned the lies it contains in exchange for the truth in God’s Word, the Bible.

Fascinating. I've followed your posts over the last few days here. They seem a little, well, they seem to protest too much. The Faith came from Jesus and the teachings of the Apostles. The NT Scripture came well after, almost as an afterthought as the Apostles and their successors began slowly to realize that Jesus wasn't coming back any time soon.

So, we have the following: teachings of Jesus; teachings of the Apostles; teachings of the Church; Greek NT; Latin NT; Reformation gobbledegook utilizing Latin texts retrotranslated from Latin to Greek; English NT. Which is more accurate? Kolo is absolutely correct; English is a lousy theological language. I'd invite you to learn Greek and see for yourself what the Church teaches and compare that to the rantings in whatever Protestant prayer barn you attend this year (or this half of this year, or...).

Christian faith is not a faith of the book, like Islam is, mm. Or any of the other novel inventions claiming the Christian title over the last 500 years.

[MarkBsnr]

I will not argue with your understanding except to note none of us really knows.

The records are a little sparse... :)

[kosta50]

I have since retracted that statement and admitted no one knows

I must have missed that, sorry.

I have read various articles which differ so much you can get dizzy chasing your tail

Ain't that true!

[kosta50]

And Catholics are masters at it.

Is that why the Protestants imitate them?