Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
“Since there is precious little in the NT that even begins to resemble what the Catholic church is today and has been for most of history, that claim is empty.”
The same could be said of the Greek Orthodox Church. What resemblance to the simple and understandable message of the Gospels can be found there?
Which "he"?
Or perhaps 2 Corinthians 7:10 where the Catholic Bible mistranslates the word "metanoian" as *penance* instead of the correct *repentance*?
The NASB, which is the Bible version on the Vatican site, reads:
"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death."
The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible says "penence," as does the Old Vulgate (pœnitentiam), but the New Jerusalem and the New Revised Standard Veriosn say "repentance."
Since the D-R is a 16th century English translation of the Old Vulgate, the error was in the Vulgate and it wouldn't be the first one. Numeorus errors form the Vulgate were incorporated into the Textus Receptus and from there into the KJV and other Protestant Bibles.
Kosta-””Also important is being familiar with the works of the Alexandrian Jewish philosopher by the name of Philo, who had a tremendous influence in the struggling Christian thought in the latter part of the 1st century, etc. He is the first to compare the logos ontologically to the OT God by about 45 AD. He is the one who introduced the divine or uncreated energies concept which are so prominent, actually essential in the Eastern Christian dogma of salvation, officially codified as the Palamite Doctrine, the official theology of the Eastern Orthodox Church since the 14th century.””
I read some of this awhile back. What do you and Kolo think of these sources?
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/religious_studies/rak/courses/999/philo.htm
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak//courses/999/RYLE1.htm
“”It’s almost impossible to fully understand John’s Gospel without the context of the Greek mind set of the time and where Christianity was.””
I agree and think we have to view all scripture with this mind set
Kosta-””Those who are “comfortable in their belief,” as boatbums says, will believe what they want to believe and there is, as she says, comfort in it. I am different. If I only sought comfort in belief, then I would still believe in a Tooth Fairy, I guess.””
I understand Christianity as something that makes us struggle against our own selfishness and the battle to let go of ourselves even if it means pain because if we are to imitate Christ we must embrace crosses in our lives not just for our own damage done by our sins,but be willing to suffer for those who have offended Christ in hope that God will have mercy on them as well .
In other words, this is true love for fellow man as I see it.
Christianity to me is not easy,it costs us something.
The Jews say pretty much the same thing with regard the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament, Kolo mou. They insist that without knowing the Oral Torah, one cannot properly interpret the Written Torah.
Absolutely. My people have preserved it. I have no problem with honest, correct translations, faithful to the original insofar as is possible in languages like English and German. I will not accept, however, the work of propagandists and liars.
"If you wish to argue with the how of translation that’s another matter but speaking Greek provides you with no special theological insight on the meaning of the Scriptures."
Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.
They may well be right, Kosta mou. That in fact is one of the many reasons I tend to stay away from the OT and what it means.
For starters, the Real Presence....Oh, wait, the simple and understandable message of the Gospels most American Protestants read leads to a "theology" which teaches that the Real Presence must be a filthy papist trick because, well, God couldn't be in two places at once! Sorry, the profundity of that soteriology is so far beyond the ability of this simple grandson of simple Greek peasants.
Looks like John was quoting Jesus so your confusion should be with his words and not the one who wrote down his words.
My point, and I believe Metmom's as well, is that Jesus used many metaphors to express his teachings. He refers to himself as a door of the sheepfold and the shepherd of the sheep. He is the way, the truth and the life and one who will make others "fishers of men". He's the Son of Man and the Son of God. He asks for all to come to him and says his "yoke" is easy and his "burden" is light. He says if we want to follow him, we should "take up our crosses". He is the "capstone" that the builders rejected. He is the Great Physician and the bridegroom. He is "Lord of the Sabbath" and "Lord of the harvest", the foundation of stone, not shifting sand. He is master and servant.
So, when Jesus speaks about being the "bread of life", the "water of life" and his blood the "New Covenant", why is he suddenly speaking of literally drinking him or eating him? He obviously, to me, is speaking metaphorically and when we believe in him, receive him, trust in him, have faith in him, we are partaking of him and in return we have eternal life.
I will be traveling tomorrow and will need more time on this. As regards his early ranking in the Church, suffice it to say that the first Church historian, Eusebius of Cesarea, a 3rd century bishop, refers to Philo, an Alexandrian Jew, as Saint Philo!
Works for me
The problem comes when people have an agenda to prove. Then they HAVE to selectively and inconsistently interpret Scripture, literally some times and figuratively others, even within the same passages, to support their agenda.
The Catholic church has real control issues. They manipulate definitions, selectively interpret Scripture, label and pigeonhole people and doctrines, and generally make connecting with God so stinking complicated, that nobody can manage it to their satisfaction.
They are sooooo much like the Pharisees of old.
“
INDEED.
“Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.”
Did you forget to add, “And no one else can”?
“Absolutely. My people have preserved it”
O.K., I’m game, just which one of “your people” have made which manuscripts available to us today?
And yet I don't recall you telling anyone which you consider the most accurate translation going. Or what the major issues are with the other ones with specific examples of what the problem areas are. Although I could have easily missed it as I don't read every post from every FReeper.
But yeah,..... we can all see that you're so much better than everyone else. So much superior to all the rest of us peons because of your knowledge of Greek. Even though koine Greek isn't actually modern Greek, but details, details......
Too bad all that knowledge isn't doing you any good.
1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
For all the snobbery and condescension that Catholics display towards others that they perceive as being more ignorant than they, it doesn't do any good when they can't even come close to interpreting Scripture correctly. Applying two different standards of interpretation within one passage in a vain bid to provide support for their unScriptural doctrines, will undo any amount of knowledge of the original language.
And besides, you're not the only one who knows Greek. Nor are you the only one who has access to Greek manuscripts. There are multitudes of references and dictionaries available to those who wish to study Scripture and get as close to the original meaning of the original texts as possible, something you can't even do better because koine Greek is not modern Greek.
Knowledge puffs up but love builds up.
Don't be ever learning and never being able to come to a knowledge of the truth. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Come to Christ in humility and learn and receive eternal life.
Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.
Alleged to be written? Only alleged? What good would it do you to know the language as you claim, if you apparently don't even trust what was transcribed?
So, when Jesus said:
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light. (Matt. 11:29-30)
He was exaggerating? Lying? Minimizing? What?
Considering the burdens the Pharisees were placing on others, if Christianity is that hard in light of Jesus comment indicating otherwise, it would mean the person doesn’t have a real good grasp of what Christianity is all about.
I mean, really. Who are we going to believe here?
Jesus who says His burden is light?
The the Catholic church which makes Christianity such a convoluted, complicated mess that nobody can make it?
Amen!!!
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