Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
I send junk mail back in the prepaid postage envelope too.
Another smart move!
No thanks. I get dizzy on the Catholic Apologetics Merry Go Round.
It appears that the Catholic church has not changed in essence since the days of the Inquisition and that all that’s keeping it in check is the power of Protestantism and civil governments based on Protestantism that prohibit the kind of appalling behavior.
Looking at history since the Reformation bears that out. The most free and prosperous nations to become the strongest the quickest, have tended by far to be overwhelmingly Protestant.
The predominantly Catholic ones have fared better where Catholic saw the fruit of Protestantism and where the Catholic church was forced to loosen its grip to hang onto adherents.
What "absolute criteria" would that be?
What metephysicial nature?
Not unlike what you referred to earlier when you stated that "our proofs must be compatible with our nature", I am referring to the essential properties of the things under discussion; "history" "event", "hot stove", "claim", "criteria", "proof", "assumption", "concept", "knowledge", "reason", "nature", "justification" "truth" and so on.
I said discovered, not invented or imagined, or blindly believed, presumed, assumed, presupposed. If sometihng "supernatural" has been disocvered, then please tell us where it was discovery and when, and what exactly is it that was discoevred. If you don't mind, that is.
The resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead as an event in space/time history - would that qualify as something supernatural in your mind?
Cordially,
A shame. Your hair wouldn't be blond, would it? :)
On the contrary, there is no need for priests.
We have access to God the Father directly through Jesus Himself.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Hebrews 12:24
..and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
The Protestant “work ethic” is no myth. If man could improve his lot in this life by hard work he was obligated to do so instead of spending his whole life suffering in preparation for the next.
RN-””How do YOU know the character or attributes of God before creation?””
We know God can only be love because hate is an imperfection of love from an ACTION of a created being
Did God have hate in him before creation?If He did than hate is in His essence and He is imperfect because hate can only be a reaction to something that is not love.
RN-””Who did God love before he created anything?””
Himself.
Blessed Aquinas explains...
A WILL does not of necessity tend to the means to an end, if the end can be had without those means. Since then the divine Goodness can be without other beings, — nay, other beings make no addition to it, — God is under no necessity of willing other things from the fact of His willing His own goodness.
2. Since good, understood to be such, is the proper object of the will, the will may fasten on any object conceived by the intellect in which the notion of good is fulfilled. Hence though the being of anything, as such, is good, and its not-being, as such, is evil; still the very not- being of a thing may become an object to the will, though not of necessity, by reason of some notion of good fulfilled: for it is good for a thing to be, even though some other thing is not.* The only good then which the will by the terms of its constitution cannot wish not to be, is the good whose non-existence would destroy the notion of good altogether. Such a good is no other than God. The will then by its constitution can will the non-existence of anything else except of God.* But in God there is will according to the fulness of the power of willing. God then can will the non-existence of any other being besides Himself.
3. God in willing His own goodness wills also other things than Himself as sharing His goodness. But since the divine goodness is infinite, and partakable in infinite ways, if by the willing of His own goodness He of necessity willed the beings that partake of it, the absurdity would follow that He must will the existence of infinite creatures sharing His goodness in infinite ways: because, if He willed them, those creatures would exist, since His will is the principle of being to creatures. We must consider therefore why God of necessity knows other beings than Himself, and yet does not of necessity will them to exist, notwithstanding that His understanding and willing of Himself involves His understanding and willing other beings. The reason of it is this: an intelligent agent’s understanding anything arises from a certain condition of the understanding, — for by a thing being actually understood its likeness is in the mind: but a volitional agent’s willing anything arises from a certain condition of the object willed, — for we will a thing either because it is an end, or because it is a means to an end. Now the divine perfection necessarily requires that all things should so be in God as to be understood in Him. But the divine goodness does not of necessity require that other things should exist to be referred to Him as means to an end; and therefore it is necessary that God should know other things, but not that He should will other things.* Hence neither does He will all things that are referable to His goodness: but He knows all things which are in any way referable to His essence, whereby He understands.
RN-””Why did God create man?””
Out of love for love with a free will to choose His love or reject it
More Aquinas..
IT is of the essential idea of love, that whoever loves wishes the good of the object loved. But God wishes His own good and the good of other beings (Chap. LXXV); and in this respect He loves Himself and other beings.
2. It is a requisite of true love to love the good of another inasmuch as it is his good. But God loves the good of every being as it is the good of that being, though He does also subordinate one being to the profit of another.
3. The essential idea of love seems to be this, that the affection of one tends to another as to a being who is in some way one with himself. The greater the bond of union, the more intense is the love. And again the more intimately bound up with the lover the bond of union is, the stronger the love. But that bond whereby all things are united with God, namely, His goodness, of which all things are imitations, is to God the greatest and most intimate of bonds, seeing that He is Himself His own goodness. There is therefore in God a love, not only true, but most perfect and strong.
Rn””So the scripture is wrong when it says GOD HATES anything? “”
You are wrong in not understanding this because it is figurative and metaphoric.
More Aquinas..
But even other affections (affectiones), which are specifically inconsistent with divine perfection, are predicated in Holy Writ of God, not properly but metaphorically, on account of likeness of effects. Thus sometimes the will in following out the order of wisdom tends to the same effect to which one might be inclined by a passion, which would argue a certain imperfection: for the judge punishes from a sense of justice, as an angry man under the promptings of anger. So sometimes God is said to be ‘angry,’ inasmuch as in the order of His wisdom He means to punish some one: When his anger shall blaze out suddenly (Ps. ii, 13). He is said to be ‘compassionate,’ inasmuch as in His benevolence He takes away the miseries of men, as we do the same from a sentiment of pity: The Lord is merciful and compassionate, patient and abounding in mercy (Ps. cli, 8). Sometimes also He is said to be ‘repentant,’ inasmuch as in the eternal and immutable order of His providence, He builds up what He had previously destroyed, or destroys what He had previously made, as we do when moved by repentance: It repenteth me that I have made man (Gen. vi, 6, 7). God is also said to be ‘sad,’ inasmuch as things happen contrary to what He loves and approves, as sadness is in us at what happens against our will: And the Lord saw, and it seemed evil in his eyes, because judgement is not: God saw that there is no man, and he was displeased, because there was none to meet him (Isa. lix, 15, 16).
Sadly you believe in an imperfect god ,rn.
He is either pure love or pure hate in His essence.He can’t be both or He is moved and changed.
Off to watch fooball..
Does God change? What does the bible say about that ? Is He not the same yesterday, today and tomorrow?
"The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them." [Rm. 1:18-19]
"What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction?" [Rm. 9:22]
"But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience." [Rm. 13:4-5]
What does Jesus say about it?
No, wrong question .. what did Jesus do about it? He died on the cross to appease the wrath of God..
Neither have I, kolo mou, but I thought you'd get the same jolt as I did. :)
It's Ukrainian "Greek"-Catholic. Pretty scary, hey? :)
And you know this how? God has perfect hatred.. He hates sin..that is perfect.. Or do the scriptures lie?
RN-””Who did God love before he created anything?””
Himself.
Agreed...
RN-””Why did God create man?””
Out of love for love with a free will to choose His love or reject it
That is not what the bible says..so you can believe Aquinas or the bible.. God was not lonely, He did not need friends ,He was fully satisfied in His love for Himself.. So one more time..why did God create man?
””So the scripture is wrong when it says GOD HATES anything? “”
You are wrong in not understanding this because it is figurative and metaphoric.
Really ?? And one knows that how? It seems to me Catholics pick and choose what is metaphoric and what is not to support their idea of god..
I actually believe in the perfect God of the bible, the Holy God that hates that which is an offense to His holiness and righteousness..
"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. " (Ps 5:5)
"But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Rev 2:6,15)
Just as there are 2 kinds of love...sinful and righteous love there are 2 kinds of hatred.. Righteous and sinful
Would you say this is not true?
“Pretty scary, hey? :) “
Yes, Kosta mou, it is. It speaks volumes about the chasm which exists between us and the Eastern Rite Catholics in communion with Rome. At least the Latins have the perfectly valid point that their sacred art works are not icons and don’t pretend to be. This melding of Eastern and Western just doesn’t work, not in Ukraine or Greece or Serbia or Russia or anywhere.
So much for the unity of Catholicism.
how many different flavors of Catholicism are there? 30,000 or so?
Wanna guess who catholics thing Jacob's ladder is a type of??
Thats think, not thing.. LOL
Momof7, you can try to argue with the Angelic Doctor, but I’ve yet to see the protestant who could best him. Most, not all of course, but most of your serious theology is traceable to him.
Why do you think God made man ?
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