Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Because the Church tells you so. If you believe the Scripture you believe the Church. The difference is that a Catholic believes the Church consistently and a Protestant -- when his pastor lets him.
The Keys are given to him alone, he alone is renamed so that to associate him with the foundation of the Church, and he alone has the prayer of Jesus to "confirm his brethren" (Luke 22). Read scripture much?
not given a new name at the time he was given the "keys".
That Jesus predicted the renaming the first time He met Peter does not nullify Metther 16 where the complete account of the actual renaming is given.
The Catholic Church does not teach the Church was built on Peter but upon his confession of faith
True. Neither I said that it was build on Peter in any physical way. Peter is associated with the foundation of the Church. Why? Indeed, because of his sterling faith.
Peter was one among other leaders at this "council" and was subordinate to James
Not what the scripture said. Peter rose, spoke, and all agreed. St. James as the presider, approved the letter.
Again, thank you for the thoughtful post.
But popes do not wisper in each other’s ear. By the time there is a pope to listen the other one is dead anyway. While the Holy Tradition is larger in volume of knowledge it represents, than the scripture, it is by no means wispered secretly. It is all written down. You yourself made reference to the Holy Tradition as you pointed out, rightly, that lifelong virginity of Mary was the belief held by the Fathers of the Church. Who wispered in your ear?
The idea that the Holy Tradition is unknowable or intransmissible reliably is a canard. It is simply not expressed in books that are cover-to-cover inspired.
At this point I am calling it a day, see y’all tomorrow.
annalex wrote:
“Very good post. But why does our desire to maintain the record given us though the fathers of the Church albeit not from the scripture, an ‘obsession’ that is ‘suspect’?”
“Very good post?” From you? I think you need to go back and read the post carefully. It is not supportive of Roman Catholic dogma in regard to Mary. It is merely illustrative of historical reality, both in terms of the early church fathers and the reformers, both of whom were more than willing to call Mary, “blessed,” and more the willing to accept the possibility of her perpetual virginity, but were completely unwilling to teach such as doctrine/dogma for the reason that Scripture did not conclusively prove it. So, unless you are either harboring urges to become Lutheran and/or have seen the light and come to understand rightly what is meant by “solo scriptura,” I think you need to re-evaluate your accolades.
Obsession is always suspect. Obsession and faith have little in common.
As Aaron said to Moses, “Aw comeon! We were only venerating the golden calf”.
Except, it does not say that is how it happens.
Ephesians 2:1 says: And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins. We WERE dead in our sins, but have been made alive (quickened).
Ephesians 2:5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And why has he saved us?
Ephesians 2:7 -That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Then we see how that grace is obtained in verses 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
We, who were at one time at enmity with God, strangers and aliens from God, have now been reconciled to God through the blood of the cross. That is certainly the meat of the entire book to the Ephesians and to us all. And God, who in his mercy and love towards us, made us alive in Christ and enables us to walk in the paths he has created for us, the "good works" he has both prepared for us and, through his spirit, causes us to walk in them. Don't shortchange God by insisting that those good works are the means to salvation because it is only because of his abundant grace that we even have any chance to be saved. And why, some may ask, would God do this? He answers in what is probably my most favorite verse, verse 7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
He lavishes that grace on us, how dare we even think our measly efforts can add to that?
The Bible is the Golden Calf for the Sola Scriptura Protestants. I really don’t care what they believe, as long as they stop pretending to be, and calling themselves “Christians”. Real Christians consider Christ to be the Word of God - NOT Paul.
No, it isn't. Mary worship is.
Protestants treat the Bible as if it were the perfect recording of God's Word.
Sources? Links?
Kosta has provided about a ton of examples of the Bible being corrupted over the years, and yet there's still a monkey pile of Bible worshipers here that continue to bury their heads in the sand and pretend God grabbed the hand of so many ancient scribes and used his magic tractor beam to write the perfect book. What a load of total garbage.
The Catholic church claims to have written the Bible, saying that its church fathers wrote it. You shouldn't talk about them that way.
A true Christian does NOT place the words of St. Paul on the same level, nor (as seen disgustingly way too often here place) do true Christians place the words of St. Paul OVER those of Christ.
Tell that to annalex who said in this post (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2618333/posts?page=1488#1488)
Everything S,.t Paul write is inspired scripture and supports the Catholic doctrines. Whoever disparaged St. Paul doesn’t understand Catholicism. We are Pauline Christians.
Yet the Protestants love to worship a BOOK!!
Who have you seen making statues of it, lighting candles to it, and praying to it?
It's nice to have a book to accompany someone in their quest to be an apprentice of Christ, but if I want to TRULY learn what it is that Christ wants from us, I'm going listen to the folks he taught, and not rely solely on the acoompanying "manual" for my education.
How are you going to do that? Time travel? They're all dead you know.....
Believing the Bible is the inerrant 'word' of God is about ridiculous as believing in the Easter Bunny.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72
"If there is no truth, all that is left is a struggle of propaganda." Ethan Clive Osgoode
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2173647/posts?page=824#824
Paul was hated by pagans and apostates in his own day too but since he was an apostle chosen by Christ and his writings are God inspired, I’ll trust what he says over “The Church of the Darnel” anytime.
I can just picture the Roman Catholics through the years standing with hands on hips, a smug grin on their faces, trotting out what they think is their ace card "the Church produced the scripture". So there!!!
Far be it from me to burst their little bubble, but I beg to differ. It was GOD who produced the Holy Scriptures, it was GOD who inspired the writers of both the OT and NT to pen the exact words he intended them to. It was GOD, no, IS GOD, who preserves his words even to this day against all the forces of evil who would cause doubt, distrust or in any way diminishment of it. It is the sole source of ALL truths he intends for us to know and is the final authority and arbiter of all doctrines "so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." II Timothy 3:17
It is incidental only that the writers of the NT were, because of belief in Jesus Christ as savior, members of the UNIVERSAL church which is the spiritual body of all believers in Christ. We could ALL claim membership in that body, but we cannot claim we had anything to do with what God himself produced.
Seeing as how DNA testing wasn't around back then, what was the proof that Mary was the real mother of Jesus? If she was "intact" how could she prove that she had given birth and not just adopted the baby Jesus? Did the "Church" think that part out?
No one, eh? Know that for a fact?
Then why did Matthew put this in his gospel?
Matthew 1:24-25When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
And Matthew and Mark listed his brothers by name (Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3) and all four gospels refer to His mother and His brothers.
M, do you know what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception is?
Yes, I do.
Do you know that the Reformers believed in the Blessed Mother's perpetual virginity?
I don't care. It's not what the Bible that the Catholic church claims it wrote says. It says that He has brothers. If the Catholic church meant that He had cousins, why use the word for *brother*? The Reformers didn't shake off all Catholic error instantaneously.
We Orthodox consider it an "innovation", just like the filioque you recite when you pray the Creed.
I don't *pray* the Creed. I pray to God.
That's not "in the bible" either.
Which is why I don't do it.
Who have you seen making statues of it, lighting candles to it, and praying to it?
INDEED. What an idiotic bunch of claptrap you were responding to.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
And, just as He could have raised up children of Abraham from rocks,
He could certainly have produced text without White Hankys.
“By the way, were it recorded in the scripture you still would have to believe the Church that to be a fact, because it is the Church who produced the scripture”
It just wasn’t the Catholic Church.
We know what Catholics in their theological hair splitting define *wroship* and *venerate* as, but the rest of the world sees the truth.
http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/worship/
Synonyms (Grouped by Similarity of Meaning) of verb worship
Sense 1:
idolize, idolise, worship, hero-worship, revere - adore
Sense 2:
worship - reverence, fear, revere, venerate
Sense 3:
worship - attend, go to
We know what Catholics in their theological hair splitting define *worship* and *venerate* as, but the rest of the world sees the truth.
http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/worship/
Synonyms (Grouped by Similarity of Meaning) of verb worship
Sense 1:
idolize, idolise, worship, hero-worship, revere - adore
Sense 2:
worship - reverence, fear, revere, venerate
Sense 3:
worship - attend, go to
2,911 posted on Monday, November 22, 2010 8:09:50 PM by getoffmylawn (aka Cool Breeze)
Just curious...
Why do you have two FR accounts?
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:coolbreeze/index?brevity=full;tab=comments
getoffmylawn (oh, I want to say something here, but ...) wrote:
“The Bible is the Golden Calf for the Sola Scriptura Protestants. I really don’t care what they believe, as long as they stop pretending to be, and calling themselves “Christians”. Real Christians consider Christ to be the Word of God - NOT Paul.”
I realize that it is the highly suspect Apostle Paul speaking (and who knows what Jesus was thinking when He appointed Paul an apostle, go figure), but, “And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.” (1 Corinthians 9:25)
Good advice there, GETOFFMYLAWN!
I will add “temperate” to “truthful” on my list of the first things about which I will turn to you for advice and help ... per your offer of such, of course.
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