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To: Kolokotronis
M, no one, until a generation or two after the Reformers, believed that.

No one, eh? Know that for a fact?

Then why did Matthew put this in his gospel?

Matthew 1:24-25When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

And Matthew and Mark listed his brothers by name (Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3) and all four gospels refer to His mother and His brothers.

M, do you know what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception is?

Yes, I do.

Do you know that the Reformers believed in the Blessed Mother's perpetual virginity?

I don't care. It's not what the Bible that the Catholic church claims it wrote says. It says that He has brothers. If the Catholic church meant that He had cousins, why use the word for *brother*? The Reformers didn't shake off all Catholic error instantaneously.

We Orthodox consider it an "innovation", just like the filioque you recite when you pray the Creed.

I don't *pray* the Creed. I pray to God.

That's not "in the bible" either.

Which is why I don't do it.

2,933 posted on 11/22/2010 6:57:25 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; getoffmylawn; kosta50; annalex; HarleyD; stfassisi

“If the Catholic church meant that He had cousins, why use the word for *brother*?”

We’ve been through all that and Matthew 1:24-25 at least 50 times before here on FR, M. Now, no Orthodox will ever say you have to believe what we believe. But 2000 years of consistent Church history and praxis ought to be acknowledged. If you choose to believe that the Holy Spirit took a 1600 year nap after Pentecost, that is certainly your prerogative. You won’t mind, I trust, if I and the other Orthodox and Latins here find your theology “unorthodox”, like we found that of, say, Arius or the more recent “bring your own snake” crowd?

“Which is why I don’t do it [pray the Creed].”

Your confidence in the 4th century work of a group of old Greek and Latin speaking bishops makes me smile. I am glad you find a use for what they did, even if you can’t accept the reasons why they came up with what they came up with. But, as I asked before, are you an Arian? Are you a believer in the Trinity?


2,954 posted on 11/22/2010 7:45:06 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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