In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[Belteshazzar]

stfassisi wrote:
“Your post is babble and accusations written in a condescending nature.”

On the other hand it could be that the problem doesn’t lie in the unclarity of the post. Also, preaching the law of God is pretty much what got all of the prophets killed. The Israelites found it ... well ...

stfassisi also wrote:
“It amazes me that you did not figure out when I spoke of Love crushing sin that God is Love and does not change from Love or God would be changed.”

So, it was the love of God that washed away the millions in the flood? It was the love of God that rained fire and brimstone and so destroyed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah? It was the love of God that left tens of thousands of dead in Egypt, and then tens of thousands of Israelites dead between Sinai and the Jordan? It was the love of God that destroyed first Samaria in 721 B.C. and then Jerusalem in 586 B.C.? It was the love of God that He inflicted on His own beloved Son on Calvary? It was the love of God that crushed and destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D.? Is that what you are saying?

Is it the love of God that those on Christ’s left hand will experience on judgment day? Have you read Matthew 25?

Is it the love of God we read of here? “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM.” (John 3:36)

Please notice that I didn’t even once have to refer to anything that the much belittled Apostle Paul wrote.

No condescension, just fact. It only sounds like condescension, because it is God speaking to humanity, to Pharisee and tax collector alike.

[bkaycee]

Cant take credit, read it somewhere else

Soli De Gloria

[stfassisi]

Sin is disruptive,belt.Even the heavens were disrupted by lucifer’s pride. The power of love destroys evil and nature is disrupted. God does not Change from love,belt.

Perhaps Aquinas might help you on this...

That God hates nothing

AS love is to good, so is hatred to evil; we wish good to them whom we love, and evil to them whom we hate. If then the will of God cannot be inclined to evil, as has been shown , it is impossible for Him to hate anything.

2. The will of God tends to things other than Himself inasmuch as, by willing and loving His own being and goodness, He wishes it to be diffused as far as is possible by communication of His likeness. This then is what God wills in beings other than Himself, that there be in them the likeness of His goodness. Therefore God wills the good of everything, and hates nothing.

4. What is found naturally in all active causes, must be found especially in the Prime Agent. But all agents in their own way love the effects which they themselves produce, as parents their children, poets their own poems, craftsmen their works. Much more therefore is God removed from hating anything, seeing that He is cause of all.*

Hence it is said: Thou lovest all things that are, and hatest nothing of the things that Thou hast made (Wisd. xi, 25).

Some things however God is said, to hate figuratively (similitudinarie), and that in two ways. The first way is this, that God, in loving things and willing their good to be, wills their evil not to be: hence He is said to have hatred of evils, for the things we wish not to be we are said to hate. So it is said: Think no evil in your hearts every one of you against his friend, and love no lying oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the Lord (Zach. viii, 17). But none of these things are effects of creation: they are not as subsistent things, to which hatred or love properly attaches. The other way is by God’s wishing some greater good, which cannot be without the privation of a lesser good; and thus He is said to hate, whereas it is more properly love. Thus inasmuch as He wills the good of justice, or of the order of the universe, which cannot be without the punishment or perishing of some, He is said to hate those beings whose punishment or perishing He wills, according to the text, Esau I have hated (Malach. i, 3); and, Thou hatest all who work Iniquity, thou wilt destroy all who utter falsehood: the man of blood and deceit the Lord shall abominate (Ps. v, 7).

Also, Christ’s resurrection proves love conquers evil and sin

[Belteshazzar]

stfassisi wrote:
“Your analysis leaves everyone still searching with doubts automatically condemned.”

OK, you didn’t like John on this very point, how about Jesus? “He who believes in Him (Christ) is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:18-19)

The default position for all of us is condemnation, that is the reality of the fall into sin. On this I will trust St. John before Thomas Aquinas.

[RnMomof7]

What is it that leads people like this that eventially accept Christ as God if they can't have the Spirit of God in them?

How did the apostles come to Christ? They did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit unto Pentecost..

[OLD REGGIE]

HD: Our friend Kosta doesn't even believe in the existance of the full Septuagint as he just posted. Are you willing to take that stand?

OR: On this I agree with Kosta. There is not, nor ever has been, such a thing as a Septuagint.

Well, I never said that. The pre-Christian era Septuagint was completed, gradually, by about 150 BC. We just don't know with certainty what books were in that canon because only seven pre-Christian books are known to exist.

First, I apologize if I misunderstood your belief, or lack thereof, in one, authentic, complete Septuagint ever having been completed.

However, I can't help myself. To say "The pre-Christian era Septuagint was completed, gradually, by about 150 BC. We just don't know with certainty what books were in that canon because only seven pre-Christian books are known to exist."

Completed gradually from what? Bits and pieces? Fragrements located in many different places?

If we don't know with certainty what books were in that "complete" canon how is it possible to know one complete canon ever existed in the beginning?

As Bill O'Reilly says "I am a simple man". This simple man is of the belief you make a compelling case for the lack of a single, complete, authentic Septuagint.

Are we possibly talking past each other?

[RnMomof7]

The Septuagint has never been located so it is believing in a ghost . There is no proof of its existence

[count-your-change]

” Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom” is not a name, it’s just left untranslated for whatever reason.

[stfassisi]

“”How did the apostles come to Christ? They did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit unto Pentecost..””

Are you suggesting they did not love before Pentecost?What do you suppose the Spirit of Love is?

Are you now going to suggest that Moses and other old Testament prophets did not have the Spirit of God and that the Holy Spirit did not exist until Pentecost?

[OLD REGGIE]

However not all council statements "define a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church."

[snip]

The condemnation of Honorius' heresy is infallible but not the condemnation of the man.

These two statements seem mutually exlcusive and contradictory. How could a teaching even be called a heresy in the first place without "defining a doctrine regarding faith" ?? And further, how could the condemnation of the heresy be called "infallible" if it did not "define a doctrine regarding faith"?

That doesn't make any sense.

Cordially,

Of course it makes no sense, but what else to do if fact and logic is absent and you have drunk the

[kosta50]

Why would you want to translate Isahiah 9:6 from Greek when you can translate it from Hebrew?

Are you trying to be obtuse, HD? Do you even know what Septuagint is?

One good reason is that because the Apostles used the Greek version of the Old Testament. Apparently they thought it was "cracked up" enough for them.

Note: גּבּר גּבּור translates into Mighty God.

What I am getting out of it is "mighty man". The word for god (any god, including angels) is 'el (אל).

I guess the Greek is not all that it's cracked up to be when translating things from Hebrew to Greek to English

The Septuagint was translated by Greek-speaking Jews, supposedly rabbis, and supposedly under inspiration, just like the Hebrew scriptures. Again, it was good enough for the Apostles.

You shouldn't really complain about your own church. Your bishops decided this was the right course

My bishops would know better. None of the Slavonic Churches approved this version. The only ones who fell for it are the Greek Archdiocese, the Antiochan Archdiocese and the Orthodox Church of America.

I believe their prelates were duped into endorsing without even seeing this "bible." As I said, an Evangelical Trojan Horse which will go down in history as another embarrassment for North American Orthodox economists.

Antiochan and American Churches here are heavily infiltrated by evangelical converts whose mindset is about as "orthodox" as that of Calvin. As far as the Greek Orthodox in America are concerned, I sometimes don't understand where they are coming from, but I do know they are trying way too hard to be "while" even to this day.

BTW-It is interesting the Orthodox decided to use the Protestant's version of scripture rather than the Catholic's DBR version

You know, when you say Orthodox, do remember that the Slavic Churches make up 85% of the world's Orthodox believers and none of them approved this travesty. As for Antiochan and Greek and OCA nut jobs in America is Orthodox, do remember that they are pretty much Orthodox periphery, if not an insane asylum.

It is no coincidence that Rome is dealing with Moscow, the bastion of Orthodoxy.

[kosta50]

According to the Orthodox Study Bible you are incorrect.

Accoridng to the koine Greek language used to wriote the New Testament the word for sacrifice and victim is one and the same. Look up the word thusia (θυσια).

[stfassisi]

OK, you didn’t like John on this very point, how about Jesus? “He who believes in Him (Christ) is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:18-19)

This applies to those who willfully reject Christ(such as the Pharisees etc.),belt,not to those still searching and to the invincibly ignorant who love unconditionally.

If a person loves He abides in Christ and we can not posses authentic Love without Christ,this is reflected in 1 John many times.

We know that we can do nothing good without Christ abiding within us and the Spirit blows where He wills ,not where Belteshazzar from FR forum says the Spirit goes.

[kosta50]

What is the source of the English translation? And I would rather like to know which version that translation was made from since on it’s basis you call “fraud”.

I gave you the links. Any purported translation of the Septuagint into English that agrees with the the Hebrew version is not a translation of the Septuagint and therefore, by definition, a fraud..

[kosta50]

Don't use Scripture to attack/condemn one of God's own to satisfy a[n] agnostic poster when according to Scripture he is INCAPABLE of understanding God's Word!

Except that you have zero proof that this is so. I am calling your bluff. What you are saying sounds no different that some Muzzie who says if you don't believe in the Koran you are an enemy of God. Everyone uses that tactic to silence opposition or just plain reason.

[Belteshazzar]

stfassisi wrote:
“... God hates nothing.”

David wrote:
“Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart; try me, and know my anxieties; and see it there is any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” (Psalm 139:21-24)

Where is God’s renunciation of David’s “perfect hatred”? Of course, there is none, for God also hates the very enemies David hates (which is why David’s is “perfect hatred”). The enemies David hates (both here and throughout the psalms) are sin, death, and Satan.

Also, take note carefully what is said here: “I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. O Death, I will be your plagues! O Grave, I will be your destruction! Pity is hidden from My eyes.” (Hosea 13:14)

What of that named by the LORD as quoted by Hosea is not part of His creation? Yet, God hates, pitilessly (His words, not mine) hates, some of what He has created ... again, because of sin. Satan freely chose (here is true free will) to rebel. Man freely chose (here too is true free will) to believe Satan rather than God. Satan is already judged and condemned together with all the fallen host of heaven. His allies sin, death, and hell all come under the pitiless wrath, the irreversible wrath of God. They are, as St. Matthew and St. John both teach, all reserved for the lake of fire, everlasting perdition.

In order to free mankind, each one of whom God loves for the sake of His only begotten Son and His bitter suffering and death, He must separate humanity from sin, death, and the power of the devil. This He does in Christ. Those who remain in sin, who reject Him who is the Giver of every good gift, “the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning,” (James 1:18) will be condemned together with those for whom hell has been reserved. (St. Matthew 25:31-46)

Jesus Christ bore the full weight of His Father’s wrath (hatred) toward our sin, and so redeemed us. He who believes in Him, as Jesus Himself said, “is not condemned.” (St. John 3:18)

This is not “dualistic,” it is pure truth. It is how God describes Himself to us. According to His unchangeable Law sin is condemned. In this there is no changing. To do so would make God unjust and a liar. But according to His unchangeable Gospel all sin is forgiven for the sake of His beloved Son, who bore the weight and fury of the Father’s wrath and judgment. This distinguishing of law and gospel, that is to say, this “rightly dividing the word of truth,” is what makes possible saving faith. This is exactly the work of the Holy Spirit, who first condemns us with the Law (his “opus alienum”) and then lifts us up and saves us with the Gospel (his “opus proprium”).

If one does not rightly divide the word of truth, one will never understand it, and will never know God as He is. If one insists on trying to reconcile God’s immutability (i.e., unchanging nature) in regard to His justice and mercy, he or she is really demanding of God that He justify His actions to us, that He explain to us what He clearly as kept from us. In short, such a one enters into the same discussion with God that Job had. The discussion that climaxed in this, “Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” (Job 38:2-4) God examines and judges us, not the other way around.

Job learned. Job believed. Job said, “I know that my Redeemer lives ...”. That is the beginning and end of it. The rest will have to wait for the clarity of eternity. I am content to wait on Him who is wisdom itself, who is just in all things, and yet whose love has overcome the world in Christ Jesus, even though, finally, I do not understand.

In these matters I will gladly remain a child at the feet of Jesus. For there I am safe ... and nowhere else.

[Belteshazzar]

stfassisi wrote:
“This applies to those who willfully reject Christ(such as the Pharisees etc.),belt,not to those still searching and to the invincibly ignorant who love unconditionally.”

You have talking points. I have Scripture. You have Thomas Aquinas and centuries of magisterially endorsed wishful thinking. I have the clear and plain words of Jesus.

I am content with what I have.

[kosta50]

Completed as in having added books in addition to Torah. How do we know that? Well, we have the five pre-Chrisitian era Law books and two of minor prophets. If they had minor prophets it makes sense to think they also had major prophets, and psalms which are very, very important part of Eastern Christian liturgy.

From Pauline Epistles, which were written circa AD 40-60 we have OT references which do not correspond to the Masoretic (aka "Hebrew" Bible or the targums), from more than just the Mosaic books and the two minor prohest, so there must have been material considered scriptural in Greek which included other parts of the Old Testament.

Other New Testament authors writing between AD 70-100 do the same thing. Philo of Alexandria, a Greek-speaking 1st century Jews speaks of the Septuagint, and so does the Jewish 1st century historian Josephus. Origen (latter half of the 2nd century) didn't doubt its existence, nor did any other Christian apologetic as far as I know.

So, there is ample evidence to conclude that some canon of Greek-language Jewish scriptures existed and were being used by Greekl-speaking Jewish diaspora. Exactly what that canon contained is not entirely certain, but obviously it contained some books not otherwise found in the Masoretic Text.

[kosta50]

prohest = prophets

[kosta50]

The Septuagint has never been located so it is believing in a ghost . There is no proof of its existence

May I suggest further study?