In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragement, dear sister in Christ!

[Iscool]

How do we know that? Are you saying James had no successor? If so, how do you know that?

Jesus obviously felt is necessary that we know the Apostles He appointed so He named them...Do you see an Apostle, the successor of James in the scripture??? Nope, you don't...

[RnMomof7]

John 20:22 says "And when he said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." This was BEFORE the day of Pentecost, when they received power. I

We have to approach this very carefully ..

Until the day of Pentecost, until the birthday of the church, the Holy Spirit did not indwell men. The Holy Spirit all throughout the OT (with one exception) was ON THEM not IN THEM

So the Spirit was on them as He willed for His purpose

When Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on to the Apostles it was ON THEM not IN THEM

Remember Jesus saying He had to go away so that the Holy Spirit could come?

The apostles did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit when they chose the replacement.. that indwelling Spirit was poured out on not only the apostles but all the disciples on Pentecost.. it is Christ's gift to the church

As the redeemed we have the Holy Spirit in us, that does not mean every decision we make is correct..

Matthias was chosen by men, and did the work of an apostle in bringing the message.. He was a faithful messenger.. But Christ had already selected His replacement for Judas.. Paul

[Iscool]

There is nothing to indicate this was not God's will.

Sure there is...ALL of the Apostles were hand picked by Jesus...NOT chosen by human beings...

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

These disciples were not at the time filled with the Holy Ghost...Jesus did not instruct them to find another Apostle...

[Iscool]

The Catholic Church bases its doctrine of apostolic succession on the historical fact that all the first apostles had successors, not only Judas.

That would be historical fable...There is no fact to it...

[annalex]

leave the rest of us out of [The Holy Inquisition].

Unless you are Catholic, you are out of it.

[annalex]

I respond to poats to me that are logical or ask a pertinent question. Other kind I ignore.

[annalex]

She gave it to the world? That is going to come as news to God, the Author of the Holy Scriptures.

I clarified in my previous piosts the exact sense in which it is so. The Church wrote the New Testament and clarified adn canonized the Old. Further, if it were not for the Chruch, the Old Testament would have been sacred books of the Jewish nation of no interest to Gentiles. Non of that is to deny the divine inspiration of the entire Old Testament canon (which you guys truncated) and the NEw Testament. Deal with it. The Scripture is a Catholic book.

[annalex]

Who do you think you are?

Catholic like any other.

[RnMomof7]

This is pure subjective conjecture. The objective fact is that the inspired writer recorded the Apostolic succession for posterity. There is nothing to indicate this was not God's will.

Or that it was His perfect will.. We can not make doctrine out of silence ...

After the indwelling Holy Spirit we do not read of any further "succession"do we?

[annalex]

Then you should be easily able to provide an example of where this is so in the NT. Merely declaring that "brother" always means "cousin" is the argument of fools

Not "always". In a large family, when the outsider would not know or would not care who exactly is a biological brother, adopted brother, half-brother, step-brother, cousin, the generic term is "brother". The examples of that are Lot and Abram eing "brothers". In the New Testament we see the same usage: in Mark 6:3 Jesus is called brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon, but in Mark 15:40 it is another Mary who is named as the mother of the fisrt two.

This does not prove that Jesus had no biological siblings -- the scripture does not contain such proof -- but it proves that the teaching that Mary the Mother of God remained virgin, which the Church held based on the historical knowledge outside the scripture -- does not contradict the scripture.

[Alex Murphy]

Unless you are Catholic, you are out of it.

Incorrect. Unless you were baptised Catholic, you are out of it.

"Roman Catholics, the largest U.S. church with a reported 69 million members, start counting baptized infants as members and often don’t remove people until they die. Most membership surveys don’t actually count who’s in the pews on Sunday. To be disenrolled, Catholics must write a bishop to ask that their baptisms be revoked..."
....it is possible, for example, to be born Catholic, married Methodist, die Lutheran and still be listed as a member of the 1 billion-member Roman Catholic Church....
"...The Catholic understanding of membership is that a person becomes a member upon baptism and remains a member for life," Gautier said. "Whether you show up at church or not is not what determines whether you're a member."
-- from the thread When It Comes to Church Membership Numbers, the Devil's in the Details

Related threads:
Why I left the Catholic Church
Actus Formalis Defectionis ab Ecclesia Catholica
Irish service offering defection from Catholic Church is suspended ["no longer possible to defect"]

[metmom]

That’s an excellent point. If they chose two men and drew lots for one of them, one of them would HAD to have been chosen, but it doesn’t mane that that was God’s choice.

There is that tendency among Christians to do that sort of thing instead of praying FIRST to find out what God wants to do. They make the decision and then add a prayer to look for God’s stamp of approval.

[Iscool]

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

This appears to be an account written about the incident in John 20:22 prior to its occurrence...And the Apostle Thomas wasn't included in the bunch...

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Whether they received 'power' immediately after receiving the Holy Spirit or at Pentecost is possibly in question...

And this indwelling of the Holy Spirit was apparently before the 12th Apostle was chosen by the disciples...We are told all Christians will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit but not everyone will be 'filled' with the Holy Spirit...

[annalex]

why, if the Catholic church wrote the Bible, did it have Paul make that the major theme of his epistles

The importance of faith for salvation is the major theme of two epistles, to the Romans and to the Galatians. None of the two -- nor any other scripture teaches that we are saved by faith ALONE. That latter part is the invention of Luther. Why do the Romans and Galatians focus on the role of faith? Because, first, faith is very important -- a sane person would not do the works of charity unless he had faith. The focus in Romans and Galatians is to correct the judaizing heresy that held that the obedience to Jewish Law -- circumcision and dietetic rules -- was a precondition to Christianity. So St. Paul stresses that in Christ there si no Jew or Greek -- we are Christians because we have faith in Christ. Circumcision has nothing to do with it. Generally, works done out of a legal obligation, or for a reward in this life, e.g. social recogniton or salary -- do not contribute to salvation. That is waht St. Paul teaches in Romans and Galatians and that is what the Catholic Church teaches also.

Even the publican was considered justified by Jesus simply for asking God for mercy. There's the thief on the cross who did nothing but believe

The publican would be justified if the gave his possessions to charity and swindled people no more. The penitent publican in the temple is like any penitent in the Church today: justified so long as he sins no more. If a penitent sins again, he needs to repent again or else he is no longer justified. See the story of Zacheus (Luke 19:8). The Good Thief did quite a bit: the repented of his crime, suffered for it, defended the innocent and asked Christ to take him to heaven. He died a good Catholic death.

Don't give us any of this nonsense that Luther invented these things out of thin air when anyone can get it out of the Bible

Ephesians 2 clearly teaches that good works must accompany faith in order for us to be saved. I already commented on Romans iand Galatians. Luther invented his theory. It was not an innocent mistake -- he was an educated man.

[Iscool]

I stand corrected...I agree prior to Pentecost, the Spirit fell upon folks, not indwelling them...

[annalex]

Those verses don't give anyone license to make things up and teach them as fact

Of course. I agree. Tell it to the Protestant charlatans.

Word of mouth over hundreds or thousands of years WILL be corrupted

This is why the Church carefully preserves the Holy Tradition. We know with precision what is in it and what is not.

[annalex]

He HAD to have had siblings

Really? Jesus had to have siblings to improve His character? I thought I have heard everything...

What's so wrong about sex between a husband and wife that Mary couldn't have done

Nothing. She could have had marital relations with Joseph if she and he wished to. It is by the way about the fifths time someone asks me that question. Can we consider it answered by now? That Mary remained virgin all her life is a historical fact known by the Church. It is not some kind of malleable story that the Church writes every way she wishes. It happens to be fact. Thanks to that, there was no detractors trying to say that Jesus was simply an illegitimate son of some unknown father, or a son of Joseph conceived prior to marriage. So it is a very fortunate fact for us, Christians.

[metmom]

If this is so critically important, why didn't the Catholic church do a better job of writing the Bible (as Catholics claim) and clear that up? Why say *brothers* and *sisters* instead of *cousins* and leave people in confusion? That's not very responsible of them.

They could have come right out and said, "And after Mary had given birth, she and Joseph lead a celibate life as husband and wife, remaining ever virgin, having no other children but Jesus"; and called those who Catholics say were cousins, "cousins" instead of "brothers" and "sisters".

Then Matthew 13:55-56 could have read....

Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren cousins, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters cousins, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Or in Matthew 12:46-48 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers cousins stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers cousins ?"

But then, Jesus' response in verses 49 and 50 would have made no sense. Matthew 49-50 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Or why wasn't it written as: And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers cousins! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother cousin and sister cousin and mother."

The Greek words used here are "adelphoi" and "adelphai", which in Greek are clearly "brother" and "sister".

The Greek word for "cousin" (Colossians 4:10) is "anepsios", which means "cousin" or "sister's son". Totally different words.

Which brings us back to the question of why it's so important that Mary have remained a virgin her entire life and Jesus had no siblings?

Why make a doctrine and teach it as fact about something at is so poorly substantiated, indeed even has Scripture stating contrary to it?

[metmom]

Generally, works done out of a legal obligation, or for a reward in this life, e.g. social recogniton or salary -- do not contribute to salvation. That is waht St. Paul teaches in Romans and Galatians and that is what the Catholic Church teaches also.

That is absolutely NOT true.

The Catholic church has set up its own system of works to replace the Law Jesus died to fulfill and if you don't do them within the framework of the Catholic church, well, sucks to be you.

While those raised non-Catholic might be deluded into believing that because they don't know any better, those of us who have been raised Catholic DO know better. Catholicism is based on works start to finish and beyond.....