Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
HOLY SPIRIT DID, HAS AND WILL PARTICIPATE IN IMPARTATIONS OF HIMSELF AND HIS GIFTS
DEPENDING . . .
HE’S NOT A VENDING MACHINE to some ritualized quarters.
Both the imparter and the impartee must be in the right spiritual ‘space’ as well as being led of Holy Spirit.
One can go through lots of RELIGIOUS MOTIONS . . . that God is not in, for one reason or a dozen reasons.
Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
They are pretty much the same thing.
Another thing I’ve noticed is lacking is that there is no mention of the church in Rome in the book of Revelation.
If the ROMAN Catholic church was the one true church, you’d think that it would have been addressed by Jesus Himself, when He addressed the other churches Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.
Or that He would have given the instructions to the church at Rome concerning the other churches and how to deal with them and cc’ing them and instructing them to submit to Rome in matters of faith and doctrine instead of telling the churches to hear what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES (plural).
Peter is alleged to have been crucified at an earlier date than the Book of Revelation was alleged to have been written. If the church at Rome were the one true church, one would find it inconceivable that Jesus would have neglected to comment on it or to it, especially if it were already on its second pope.
Interesting thing about Paul’s letter to the Romans, is that that letter is one of the heavyweights for Protestant theology containing the most material that contradicts what the RCC claims is its true teaching from God.
Very curious.
According to Catholics, East Orthodox, and older Protestants, the "born of water and of the Spirit" so necessary for salvation is water baptism. Newer Protestants disagree. Who is right? The Apostels, Fathers, and Doctors, or Nineteenth Century revivalists?
Is this question best decided by an historically informed interpretation or extemporaneous exegesis?
Yes, I also have concluded too much emphasis is put on their “traditions” though these have a place in all venues of our life, for many in the catholic church these carry as much weight as scripture, which is why they end up in error. IMO. The pattern is much as with Islam in that they have the Koran but put as much weight and sometimes more in the Hadiths etc. As well their Imams and such...as catholics do Bishops etc. May be why the Pope/Rome and the Moslem leadership see a kindred spirit with one another as also those of the Mormon faith. All three have hierarchy similar...and accountability, “works” and such which benefit that high leadership in them all. I can see where these will identify with one another down the road...all under the name and understanding they are all serving the same God...which is simply not true. There is only the God of Christianity...unfortunately by the catholic church acknowledging openly that the Moslem God is the same they have evidenced by doing so their willingness to eventually abandon the Christian God...at the very least set Him along side a pagan God.
Jesus will always be a stumbling block for those who want to hold that He was simply a good teacher, or a prophet etc. Jesus IS God...and there is none like Him.
What a tremendous education these threads have brought....as well as understanding why and how those on differing sides of issues arrive at their conclusions. They have challenged me to go deeper into Gods word and seek His truth time and again...for that I am much grateful to all who have posted. At other times these have strengthened what I already knew as truth. Jesus did say He was and is the truth....and I will continue to stand on that truth and the words He gave us to live by it. And continue to pray that the light of His truth will be revealed to those in the catholic truth....who want to see it thru Christ and not that of those who determine so.
NL: They are pretty much the same thing.
Which doesn't answer the question. It just changes the subject.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church......841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
Well, if there's no difference between Protestants and Muslims ("they are pretty much the same thing"), we should be joining them in first place in line for salvation.
Of course we know that is not true since that same group didn't draw straws for an new apostle after James was killed...
God chose ALL of the apostles...Peter and the crew took it upon themselves to pick their own replacement...And even then, they couldn't agree...
After the initial 12, God chose the 13th apostle who was Paul...
Genealogy is important in regards to Christ's history. I recall usually skipping over the begats etc. until one day I realized how significant these are in the genealogy of our Lord...and that of Joseph and Mary as His earthly parents. The Lord surely reveals to us that which He determines in His time....and as we grow in Him. Learning and diving deeper into His genealogy was thereafter both interesting and enlightening. Even so I do not see the Apostolic succession...rather that it is as the Holy Spirit determines, just as you stated.......... I actually am convinced that Paul, not Matthias, was chosen by God to replace Judas. This also I looked at very carefully. But the important part is Paul was selected by the Lord Himself....and what a story that was and remains to this day!............ Even with all the differences among Protestants, catholics and other denominations....I do believe their are true believers among them all. The questions remain why when the scriptures are so clear do people hold so strongly to that which scripture does not support, and in fact opposes what the scriptures say?
I believe this as well...but may I ask what led you to see paul as Gods replacement for Judas...or do you not see Paul as a replacement..rather the 13th Apostle? Thank you ahead for your response...when convenient for you. No hurry.
How do we know that? Are you saying James had no successor? If so, how do you know that?
I thought your Salvation was predestined - 'Insha Allah' (as Allah wills).
No. Paul was talking about Jewish priest lines who claim genealogies like Cohens. The only Apostle who had a successor at the time was Judas and Paul never criticized that.
If one's spiritual understanding is that the Holy Spirit moves from one Christian to the next by the physical act of laying on of the hands, then he would surely be concerned about Apostolic succession. However, if one's spiritual understanding is that the Holy Spirit moves according to His own will
Apparently, it is the Holy Spirit's own will to move by the laying on of the hands:
1 Timothy 4:14: "Neglect not the gift that is in you, which was given you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery."
Acts 19:6: "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them"
Acts 8:11: "Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."
Acts 13:2 "the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed"
This is pure subjective conjecture. The objective fact is that the inspired writer recorded the Apostolic succession for posterity. There is nothing to indicate this was not God's will.
Where did you get this information?
It was not a church council of any kind because the church had not received power from on high as of yet.
Successor bishops are not appointed by council.
It was done in the flesh, without the leading of the Holy Spirit, who had not been given yet.
Jesus have come to them and given them voluminous on what to do next. They were likely following his instructions.
If the Catholic church wishes to base their whole doctrine of the papacy and apostolic succession based on the carnal, misguided actions of a group which was not even the church yet and had no capability to use spiritual discernment, that's their prerogative, but it's still foolhardy. They weren't right the first time they did it (in Acts 1) and the Catholic church is not going to be right every time after it that it does it.
On what basis do you say the Apostles were not right? The Catholic Church bases its doctrine of apostolic succession on the historical fact that all the first apostles had successors, not only Judas.
Good point! Another thought along the same line is how many "Apostles" are there now? Only one (the Pope)? Why aren't there 12 still? How many bishops are in the "College of Cardinals" today?
Now now.
Biblical and Rational
are totally against the unspoken & unwritten Catechism of the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology and Reality Mangling.
Very much of those and the whole edifice would crumble.
It is logical that the church in Rome is not mentioned in Revelation because Holy Spirit left the building centuries before the END TIMES spoken of in Revelation—except for scattered Charismatic groups here and there.
Of course, the white-washed tomb motif . . . dressed up in White Hankys is designed to overcome such ‘technicalities’ . . . but rumor has it that God is NOT thereby impressed . . . and that if the authentic Mary focused on anything but God and teaching the aborted children the ways of God, she’d lose her Heavenly Peace to outrage at what they’ve done in her name.
WHO TRULY
SEEK HIM
TO HIM AND INTO ALL TRUTH.
I agree with every sentence of yours.
I do my feeble best to lob thought bombs persistently in the hope that some will eventually go off at Holy Spirit's urging and lighting, to good effect, within the person reading them.
An eternal soul is a horrific thing to waste.
Certainly we all need to walk circumspectly before God and the character in our mirrors . . . idolatry, traditions, RELIGION etc. lurk at every turn and corner toward entrapment regardless of the label on the door. However, the INSTITUTIONS you mentioned are dyed-in-the-wool ANTI-CHRIST READY and complicit already in memes, themes, structures, rituals, constructs, priorities, goals, foci . . . straight from the throne of hell.
Such are not small things.
Such are not inconsequential.
Such are not to be winked at as just another way to God.
.
Such are not to be indulged in as just a viable variation on authentic Christianity.
Such are not to be flaunted as beneficial distinctives in the 'holier-than-thou' race.
.
Such are not to be worn as robes of righteousness in prancing dances of RELIGIOUS one-ups-man-ship.
Such are not to be wallowed in as empty 'proofs' of sanctification and IN-GROUP exclusiveness.
.
Such are NOT to substitute in mind, heart, spirit or practice for the EXCLUSIVELY RIGHTEOUSNESS YIELDING, CLEANSING AND COVERING BLOOD OF JESUS.
Such don't fool God in the least degree.
God will not be mocked. Sowing DEAD RELIGION having a form of Godliness but denying the power thereof, will result only in a harvest of DEAD RELIGION--powerless to save; powerless to sanctify; powerless to redeem.
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Laodicean Church
The city remains a titular see of the Roman Catholic Church, Laodicensis in Phrygia; the seat has been vacant since 1968.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
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