Baptism and Infant Baptism

The Evangelization Station ^ | Written by John Lee and Frank Bompas. Printed with ecclesiastical approval.

[WVNan]

Ha! you beat me to that one. Just another question to throw into the “discussion”. Acts 10:44-48 All of Cornelius’ friends and family received the Holy Spirit and then were Baptized. Act 2, the fire of the Holy Spirit fell on those 3,000, and then Peter told them to be baptized. So, were they “saved” before they were baptized? Does receiving the Holy Spirit save you? Just asking.

[Lauren BaRecall]

I’m not playing “gotcha.” I am simply responding to you through the use of the scriptures - the same as you have been doing on this thread.

My point was to use that verse, AND following, to prove that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to forgive sins, which is continued to this day through apostolic succession.

I regret that your frustration precludes your responding further, but I don’t mind your silence because my words will be here for others to read.

[MHGinTN]

If it was necessary, why did Jesus not tell those who asked what is the work God requires for salvation? [John 6:29 and 40] If it was necessary, why didn't the thief on the cross have to be baptised in order to be with Jesus in paradise? If it was necessary, how are those who lived before Jesus was born saved by His blood? ...

Ya know what, I don't think this is worth the wrangle. You have your opinion and I have mine. I study the scriptures and have studied the scriptures and tons of ancillary written and spoken material on the scriptures, for decades. I have a feeling that means nothing to your perspective since you don't have the same background and have already chosen to believe as you do.

Neither my perspective nor yours will change the spiritual status of either of us if we are trusting in Jesus as our Savior, so have a pleasant day, enjoy your life, and thank you for the exchanges. And I have, BTW, been baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

[WVNan]

This is why I make a practice of not engaging in these religious “discussions”. Everyone has their own mind made up and nobody is going to change that. So I think, “Everyone work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.”

[Lauren BaRecall]

Baptism is the method God has chosen to initially convey the saving grace of the Resurrection. It is not merely an outward sign. It is the Sacrament of Christian Initiation.

[MHGinTN]

Please refer to my #65 above.

Here's a further note, to stir the pot, so to speak. When Peter was instructed that it was okay to go into the house of a man like Cornelius, he was still very hesitant. The Holy Spirit manifestation Peter witnessed as he BEGAN TO PREACH the Gospel may have been as much to convince Peter that God was at work in these non-Jewish hearts as He had been at Pentecost when it was Jewish hearts who manifested the Spirit gifts. Baptism is an open act of very, very important obedience. It is an individual's way to show he or she is 'plighting' their destiny with His redemption for them. If water is available on the battlefield, when a man is converted before dying, he is baptised. But if water is not available, he is not prevented from salvation when he confesses with his mouth the Lord Jesus and believes in his heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead.

[CynicalBear]

Convey = symbolize Baptism has not inherent power of it’s own.

[verga]

And where is the part about sprinkling water on a baby?

The Same place that Sola Scriptura is (Hint it isn't, but Catholics don't need the truth to be limited our God is powerful.

And how old was Jesus when He was Baptized?

Ah so God is the rule rather than the exception.

Do you have a verse that specfically forbids infant bpatism. I am looking ofr something that has Jesus specifically saying, you not ever baptised Children."

Get back to me with that and only that.

[Lauren BaRecall]

God imbues certain acts of man with His power and grace.

[verga]

If Baptizing a child who is sinless,

Do you have the fall of man in your Bible? It is right there in Genesis.

cdhildren do bear the stain of original sin, and one again: 1 Peter 21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.

I am going by what is in the Bible. I am quoting it directly and in context.

[verga]

Are you telling me that this was not baptism of/in/from the Holy Spirit? I have nothing further to post to you since I will not play gotcha on your twisted terms. Another great debate technique. You can't answer soyou attack.

To answer your aqeustion, it is called "Confirmation" in the Church.

Catholics (Rightly) believe that initiation into the Church is a three part event. Bapstism, Holy Eucharist and finally, Confirmation. While the first is requried for Salvation 1 Peter 3:20-22, the otehr two demonstrate your maturation in Christ. Taking you from the new born milk of infonats to the final rite of full acceptance.

I strongly recommend that yiou investigate before you try to belittle or attack.

[verga]

Let's look at this in "plain English":

1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The first sentence has a dependent and an independent clause. "Which now saves you" is the dependent referring back to the noun of the independent "Baptism"

"Through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ" is also a dependent clause referring back to the phrase "an appeal to God".

It does not modify in any way the first sentence, it is a separate idea.

[NoDRodee]

Acts 8:35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36 And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?”

38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water

1. One must Believe in order to be Baptized, same as Jesus stated in Mark 16 - He who believes and is Baptized will be saved. can a an infant believe? Also Acts 2:38 say one must Repent, can a baby repent.
2. Note how they both went to the water, and both came out of the water, how do you come out of water that is sprinkled on someone.

When it says household you are reaching to say it included children (infants), their children could have been at an age where they believed (say 15 or 16), I don't see how that states there had to be infants present.

[MHGinTN]

Act 19:1-6 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

There are many for whom dogma weighs more heavily than trying to understand why the scriptures seem to be contradictory. Compare in your heart the scene in the house of Cornelius with the scene from acts. ['Salvation cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.' When John was baptising, he was baptising for repentence. When Peter was baptising, was he baptising for salvation? How could the Holy Spirit come before baptism in one scene and after baptism in the other, if baptism is required for the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit?]

[verga]

Convey = symbolize Baptism has not inherent power of it’s own.

1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now.

Just so we are all clear, you are saying the Bible contains errors, Your sole infallible rule of Truth contains ERRORS!

I think not

[Grunthor]

“The Same place that Sola Scriptura is (Hint it isn’t, but Catholics don’t need the truth to be limited our God is powerful.”

I couldn’t care less about your Sola Scriptura argument, I am more of a Sola Jesus kind of guy.

“Do you have a verse that specfically forbids infant bpatism. I am looking ofr something that has Jesus specifically saying, you not ever baptised Children.”

I have not said that infant baptism is to be forbidden. I have said and stand by that sentiment that it is futile.

[verga]

I have not said that infant baptism is to be forbidden. I have said and stand by that sentiment that it is futile.

Do you beleive in "Original Sin"?

[CynicalBear]

>> Let's look at this in "plain English": 1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.<< Look how you put the period after now to make your point. I can find no version of the Bible that uses the period in that position. If you take out the portions between the comma “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God” you get the following sentence. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Now lets look at the way it reads in the Greek. No punctuation. 1 Peter 3:21 Greek / Interlinear ὁ καὶ ὑμᾶς ἀντίτυπον νῦν σῴζει βάπτισμα, οὐ σαρκὸς ἀπόθεσις ῥύπου ἀλλὰ συνειδήσεως ἀγαθῆς ἐπερώτημα εἰς θεόν, δι’ ἀναστάσεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, whereunto also you Corresponding now saves baptism not of flesh putting away of filth but conscience of good appeal toward God through resurrection of Jesus Christ Playing with the punctuation or taking verses by themselves is dangerous at best. Clearly, it is the resurrection of Jesus that saves us and baptism is only a symbol of the washing of sins.

[CynicalBear]

Sorry verga. The Greek letter screwed up the formatting I’ll try fix it.

[CynicalBear]

>> Let’s look at this in “plain English”: 1 Peter 3:21 This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God 7 for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.<<

Look how you put the period after now to make your point. I can find no version of the Bible that uses the period in that position.

If you take out the portions between the comma “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God” you get the following sentence.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Now lets look at the way it reads in the Greek. No punctuation. 1 Peter 3:21 translated from Greek as it is written.

whereunto also you Corresponding now saves baptism not of flesh putting away of filth but conscience of good appeal toward God through resurrection of Jesus Christ

Playing with the punctuation or taking verses by themselves is dangerous at best. Clearly, it is the resurrection of Jesus that saves us and baptism is only a symbol of the washing of sins.