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Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.
The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."
That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.
The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.
Scout Council: It's unusual
Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.
What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."
Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.
"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."
Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.
But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?
Packs at other churches
No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.
"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."
But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.
"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."
Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.
Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.
In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.
Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.
Should they?
"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."
Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.
As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."
Stokes find Scouting home
Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.
"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.
Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?
Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.
"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.
"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.
YHvH's Blessings on you and yours.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachGilwell Troop 1 NC-147 PL Bears
probably a bit of Latin.
ROTFLOL !!!!
YHvH has maintained His Remnant for His Glory. I'll bet you think Yah'shua and His followers
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
were Catholic or Christians.
The Rabbis have prohibited it's utterance for 1900 years. The Karaites do however pronounce YHvH. I do not use the term Yahweh as it is an ignorant Christian term.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
If I am not a Jew Christ cannot be my savior?
Was Handel's Messiah only written for a Jewish audience?
Jesus changed the rules for everyone. He brought a new way. Trying to go back and make it all Hebrew again is fallacy at its best.
You can call on His NAME I don't know the answer to your question. Yah'shua started the New Covenant But then again you may be one of those NO
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
as He outlined Jer 31:31-37.
that believe that Jesus is another god
who changed all the rules and started
a new religion.
They aren’t Christians and if being a Christian is a pre-req then they shouldn’t be allowed to do it.
“So, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not Christian?
OooooooKAY! “
It is impossible to be both a Christian and a Mormon. Christians do not believe in the Book of Mormon and their false prophet.
And what was funny about that. Latin was common among the Roman guards and just like living in So Cal, you pick up some Spanish, it is common knowledge that most of the people in the ANE knew a smattering of Latin, even the commoners.
Well I certainly don’t put you in a category of a follower of Yeshua.
No, they wouldn’t have been Catholics and Christianity was a sect of Judaism (which broke off officially because of the Temple Tax) but being followers of Jesus they were outcast by the Jews.
Wow, you sound just like the Mormons, have you ever been to Adam ondi Ahman?
Spoken like a true follower of Yeshua...NOT
Heretics all.
When would be a good time for a few of our well indoctrinated folks to stop by your house and explain to you how your church has taught you wrong about this?
--JWDude(We can also enlighten you about: Blood transfusions, birthday parties, patriotism, ...AND SO FORTH.)
If I were JS; I could merely CLAIM things were UNTRUE: with NO proof all all!
(Actually; I need NO words or phrases at all to PROVE MORMONISM WRONG. But thanks for the help all the same.)
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MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t! 3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t! 4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal! 5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers! 6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t! 7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t. 8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures). 9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith. 10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly. 11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. — -- You can’t. 12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't. 14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't 15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself. 16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't. 17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t. 18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t. 19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't. 20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going! 21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where. 22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t. 23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple -- all you have is a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty. 25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!) 26. I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over). Revision 46.2
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.
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LOL!
Or else WHAT???
And what BETTER way to STOMP on the practices of 'The Evil One' than by usurping his fun days!
(Kinda like how the FAGS have taken over the RAINBOW: symbol of GOD!)
So does idiocy.
An APPLE branch; grafted to a PEACH tree; will NOT produce peachs; but APPLES.
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