Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.
The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."
That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.
The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.
Scout Council: It's unusual
Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.
What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."
Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.
"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."
Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.
But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?
Packs at other churches
No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.
"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."
But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.
"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."
Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.
Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.
In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.
Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.
Should they?
"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."
Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.
As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."
Stokes find Scouting home
Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.
"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.
Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?
Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.
"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.
"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.
In that they all had some parts of the 2nd Great Awakening and wished to have church based on a closer affinity to that of the 1st century they had some similarity but quickly departed from that starting point.
CoC is definitely part part of the Restoration Movement, that Campbell belonged. Most Congregations still hold to in great reguard the Restrationist view held but Campbell.
mormons were influenced by rigdon who left the Restoration Movement wanting to make his own church (with him in a far more prominent role than allowed by a strict reading of the New Testament imho .)
jw once again starts as a return to the New Testament then rapidly adds to it with various “revelations” inclusive of the resurrection of Hebrew patriarchs and the invisible return of Jesus in 1874 among many others.
7th day adventist were formed during the 2nd great awakening period in the burned over district of West NY much like the mormon movement. It does share some restorationist principles but has made many predictions that have not come to pass (much like lds) and does not hold a clear separation between the old and new testaments. which A.Campbell most certainly did.
Yeah that one...
Just keep the blonde hair and thin prissy lips and pansy look and paint a robe on him...
Ur: >>We do not save anyone’s soul except our own.<<
CB: We don’t save our own souls. Jesus does that with His death and resurrection.
_____________________________________________________
...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world...” (Lds “prophet” John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
“lol I give you truthful data almost daily. Can’t make a horse drink though eh?”
Would you please give us a link to a single post you ever made that included “data”? I don’t remember one...
Don’t disagree with that and knew all that. In fact, it supports my view that Mormon theology (through Rigdon) is based upon Campbellite doctrine and teachings.
BTW, Rigdon did leave the LDS in 1844 with William Law and did found his own church after he decided Smith was a ‘fallen prophet’ (because of polygamy).
Knowing you are a lady and seeing the question “have you ever been a Boyscout?” had me laughing and I hadn’t thought of a response until I saw yours and it was too funny.
Then the thought ran through my head “Does Mr. Reaganaut know this?/s” and it was even funnier.
LOL
No misunderstanding, no reason to apologize.
Sometimes I need to expand on the discussion for things I assume and that always leads to misunderstanding.
Post on.
ROFL. I know Mr. R is aware of my sex. Has been since we were kids. ;)
It is our responsibility to tell the true gospel to all.
Yah'shua <===> YHvH be my salvation Joel 2:32 & Romans 10:13 We need to call on His NAME in order to be saved:
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
I didnt say you had to belong to a church and I didnt say that belonging to a church automatically gets you in.
You have to believe in a God, and they do not specify which God it must be. That is a requirement, but not an automatic in. If you believe in a God, but are homosexual, you can not join. The point I was making is that the specifics of the religion dont matter to the BSA.
As for the church picking leaders, that isnt how it happened when I was in, which was only about 10 years ago. The church we used had absolutely no involvement in picking leaders or setting rules. They just gave us a place to conduct meetings and the pastor would give an invocation if we asked. As a troop, we actually used 3 different churches in 8 years.
The rest of your post is just you trying to push an agenda. It takes a special type of laser focus to take an article about Mormons not being allowed to be leaders and use it to attack what Mormons do.
Perhaps you should stop trying to read minds. I am talking about the scouts.
LOL
You have known each other since you were kids?
Lucky Guy.
Be back in a few hours.
The young man can not reject a higher being. The two times this must be affirmedI have served as a member of the
Advancement Committee in the Denver Area Council.
i.e. Can not claim to be an Atheist.
is Arrow of Light and Eagle.
How can you even say that if you don't even know what it means to be a Christian?
I feel sorry for this, by all appearances.... thriving....PCA Presbyterian congregation who were trying to do good by sponsoring the Boy Scouts...
They're going to be steamrolled by this family .....litigation city....
..the little trip to the newpaper was the first step!
And, for full disclosure, yes, I'm PCA.
You are aware that neither are scripturally based You do keep Holy YHvH's Shabbat ? I remind you of the Holy Word of G-d in love. Do you believe in and practice the Pagan
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
rituals of Easter and Christmas ?
and impugn the YHvH commanded Feasts of Leviticus.
As it is the fourth commandment.
Very true. We had a life scout who they actually asked 3 times in the advancement meeting to say he believed in something, but he held firm to his atheism and was removed.
Too bad but, not for nothing...
We met when we were 3 (preschool), we were 5 the first time he asked me to marry him (seriously).
See in a few hours.
I was not dumping on the PCA, I was pointing out that the church who offered us a meeting place had a policy which required a statement of faith and that non-PCA members not hold leadership roles in organizations the church hosted.are If you read my next post I said I was not upset by it, we could and did look elsewhere for a meeting place.
We had 4 leaders none of whom were PCA. (Three Methodists and myself an Anglican.) We ended up at a Methodist church. The 4 of us had worked very hard to build this group and were not interested in changing the leadership nor making the group less inclusive by requiring members to sign a rigid statement of faith. It was a homeschool group NOT a religious organization.
The PCA can make any rules it wants for its members and property, I’m not PCA so am not bound.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.