Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.
The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."
That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.
The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.
Scout Council: It's unusual
Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.
What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."
Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.
"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."
Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.
But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?
Packs at other churches
No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.
"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."
But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.
"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."
Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.
Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.
In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.
Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.
Should they?
"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."
Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.
As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."
Stokes find Scouting home
Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.
"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.
Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?
Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.
"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.
"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.
The church chartered the Troop/Pack. They have every right to decide who their leaders are. The Chartered Org. Rep is usually a member or leader of the organization chartering the Troop/Pack.
Same as a VFW, American Legion, Moose Club, etc.
What you think, albeit unpalatable to many not familiar with BSA rules and guidelines, is within BSA guidelines, as the article points out.
Why is leadership rare?
Is the troop located in a predominately LDS area? Utah, Idaho, etc.
That would make sense to me as to why it would be rare.
Thanks
a) non sequiter. You are changing the topic. The comment was about Mormons not being Christians.
b) No, because I am a female and always have been.
Exactly.
This is standard Mormon practice. It's done all the time. And yet offense is taken when it's done the other way.
It's just like how Mormons for the past 180 years have called the entire Christian church...Protestants...Catholics...Orthodox "apostates." And heretics.
And the Mormon church "scripture" says it's "the only true and living church on the face of the earth" (Doctrine & Covenants 1:30). But if somebody turns around and tells Mormons they aren't Christian, then offense is taken. (They like to have their cake and eat it, too)
And note, too, how Mormons like to control it all...like they take offense when fundamentalist Mormons are referenced as "Mormon." So they want to totally 100% control the word "Mormon" -- and define who is one and who isn't -- but then when it comes to Christians wanting to put in a minor thing like, "Ya gotta be a monotheist to be a Christian" (Mormons believe many gods exist, and they worship more than one)...then we hear all this supposed offense.
;)
(un)holy cow - wow
________________________
I believe it was designed to represent a buffalo skull, indicating the pioneer travels of the early LDS.
According to Wiki, on the design:
The award and its qualifying program is named from a passage in the Book of Mormon: “I have said these things unto you that I might awaken you to a sense of your duty to God, that ye may walk blameless before him, that ye may walk after the holy order of God” (Alma 7:22).[2] The award, a circular medallion, was designed by Douglas Coy Miles. Before 2002, the award was a buffalo skull-shaped medal designed by Avaard Fairbanks.[3]
yeah, its like a really bad virus.
Are you totally ignorant of the Word of G-d ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
I get were you are coming from and I am familiar with BSA rules.
I guess the issue then seperating them is the location of the sponsored pack, which is in a church and they are well aware of the difference in doctrine, just as the LDS are aware in the difference of doctrine.
So much so, that to a person I have asked, who is LDS, they have been very able to enumerate the differences.
So again, the Stokes family is being disingenuous.
Some areas don’t have many members. I’ve lived in branches, as opposed to wards where people had several callings.
No. Just ignorant...
Do you have historical mentions of the LDS that predates an 1830 time I am unaware, if so please provide them.
I would especially enjoy seeing how the LDS faired say in the first 3 centuries AD in relations to other heretical movements that were dismissed at the time. I am sure they stood up well against the Arians and such, if they were around then.
As it is while a rich 2000 years of Christian history does address such groups I see nothing of the Latter Day Saints even mentioned in passing until Smith's self proclamation as a "prophet" and even then it was a couple of years before anything other than some secular history texts mention it, and certainly Christian historians took some time to note such if at all. So if Mormonism is Historic Christianity, seems there some issues...
Whew! LOL!
LOL. I had thought of how to respond to that question and thought of pinging Mr. Reaganuat to see his response but yours is appropriate, if not accurate. LOL
Yes, you’re right.
I found it quite maddening to hear the leaders of the church talk about Scouting, admonish(?) leaders as to the importance of Scouting and do their “jobs” within Scouting, relate their experiences and how those experiences helped them, etc., yet, see such inconsistency in the application/operations of the program.
Anyway, keep up the good work within your unit, it sounds like you and your folks “get it”.
YISS,
SZ
Oprah Christianity damns the soul.
Sorry. Didn’t understand your answer.
But I got to run and take care of business.
Be back in an hour or two.
Mormonism teaches that god the father was once a man and 'gained' godhood attributes. If you need for me to post the quotes from your leadership again I shall. I am definitely not misreprersenting the teachings of Mormonism.
Which is then the truth about Jesus? Is Jesus The Word Who was God in the beginning and without Whom nothing was made that was made, OR is jesus a created being, the product of a union between a god and goddess who once were not gods either and gained the attributes of godhood?
uuhh sorry but Mormonism IS historical Christianity.
- - - - - - - - - -
ROFL!!!! Talk about epic fail.
Mormonism is a ninteenth century invention based upon the teachings of Alexander Campbell, Universalism, and American folklore.
It has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.
The Mormon church protects child abusers too. In fact, I have a friend who just found out her Mormon bishop covered up the molestation of one of her sons. Seems they went from the frying pan into the fire.
www.mormonabuse.com
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