So millions of Mormons are wrong...
Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.
The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."
That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.
The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.
Scout Council: It's unusual
Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.
What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."
Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.
"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."
Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.
But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?
Packs at other churches
No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.
"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."
But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.
"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."
Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.
Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.
In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.
Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.
Should they?
"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."
Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.
As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."
Stokes find Scouting home
Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.
"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.
Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?
Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.
"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.
"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.
Well the person did leave the Church that protects child molesters..
No, no, no. You have the equation wrong.
Millions of Mormons believe a little over a billion Christians are wrong.
Which is fine. I don’t begrudge their faith as “The restored religion”.
“Let’s examine that again:
“What upset the Stokes family most was
the church questioning their Christianity.”
Really?
Your Church runs around all day long telling everyone else they are not saved and worshiping in an apostacy religion.
You grew up a Catholic and became a Mormon, presumably you got that message and hence your conversion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You do know I’m not a mormon...?
Apparently, you mistook me for a polytheist!
Not so, by the grace of God.
That's rich, coming from practitioners of a religion whose founding "prophet" started his "church" because he declared all the existing Christian churches apostate. Don't you hate it when the shoe's on the other foot?
So millions of Mormons are wrong...
Must have been an over sight...
Ooooooohhhh! Bad poster and I ain’t Catholic. LOL
It's a collectors piece. Some day I'll be rich! LOL
Yes, but are you now, or have you ever been, a Boy Scout?
I agree with you here and if the BSA accepts all other faiths, Mormons should not be excluded.
Still, I wonder how LDS sponsored groups deal with other denominations.
According to the article, when the leader of a Mormon church was asked if a non-Morman would be allowed as a leader of their scout group he said that he would be open to it. It would depend on the individual.
Not to get into a tit for tat or anything, that may be how it is on paper, but not in practice at every ward. If there aren't enough adults, the SM is usually wearing the advisors hat as well. I've seen the YM's org run roughshod over the SM and undermine Scouting programs within wards. It happened to the Troop I was trying to help here in SoCal, and to the Troop of a friend of mine (active LdS). I can go into further detail if you're interested, but not here, too long of a story.
"While the example you sited might happen if no one else is available, it’s not typical."
I believe I said "isolated incidents" and in no way was I trying to imply that it was typical. I was merely addressing one of the points of the article and questions others on the thread had asked as well.
I know and am friends with many LdS Scouters and the problems within LdS Scouting are many and IMO, easily resolved.
I was an LdS SM twice, once in SC as an active member and once here in SoCal as an inactive member. The problems were almost identical. Lack of parental support, boys and ward leaders dismissing the program as subservient to the YM's program to name two.
There is great potential within LdS Scouting and it may be that in large LdS communities, that potential is achieved. Outside of that, I have personally witnessed many lost opportunities.
This is one of those examples where you should read and think before posting. Just letting you know.
Still, I wonder how LDS sponsored groups deal with other denominations.
________________________________________________________________________
We have non members in our Scout Troop, and some in cubs.
As to leadership, though it’s rare, I had a non member Scout Master in my own ward a few years ago.
That's Mormon talk for "if we have an opening (which we usually don't), we'll consider it. And -- if we have a real opening -- which we usually don't -- we'll approach a number of Mormons first until one says 'yes' to this calling."
You see, the Mormon church doesn't have youth groups. They use the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts as a sort of youth group. And they treat leadership positions like a calling in the church...meaning they are pro-active about it, including pro-active in approaching leaders.
Sorry AMPU, I know who you are and your faith.
I was hitching a ride on your post and clarifying the position of the Stokes Family, which is disingenuous at a minimum and they know it.
They converted from Catholicism to Mormonism. Extant to their conversion would be a belief they are in a fallen state and now need membership in the Restored Church and found salvation in Jesus Christ and the newest member of the team, Joseph Smith.
I think it’s different depending on the organization and the people involved. I’ve been in wards that were like you posted, where the Scouting program just ho hummed along, taking a back seat to the Young Men organization.
Others, including my current ward, is very proactive, with the leadership and boys giving it 100 percent. I wish I had grown up in such a troop.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.